Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:03 am Post subject: Playing on a raw brass mouthpiece
Is this guaranteed to cause a reaction in everyone who does it? I noticed some of the Al Cass mouthpieces you see from back in the day were raw brass, so I've been curious. When it does cause a reaction, what are the typical symptoms?
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Posts: 566 Location: New Jersey
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 11:10 am Post subject:
I do not have a definitive answer, but I think overall it is not a good idea to touch raw brass for long periods of time. I remember John Stork of Stork mouthpieces saying that he got brass poisoning from making mouthpieces. I owned a baroque trumpet with a raw brass mouthpiece which I used for some time without any reaction, but I had it plated when I got the chance just to be safe. I did have a friend who played a raw brass rim and he basically had a chemical reaction- he got a burn type scab on his chops. He had to take a break and get his mouthpiece plated.
Joined: 30 Sep 2009 Posts: 365 Location: North of Detroit
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:16 pm Post subject:
It won't kill you to play it. If you have a reaction you will definitely know about it. Wouldn't a raw brass mouthpiece leave a nasty after-taste? I just cleaned and polished my raw brass Ambassador last night and the cleaning rags were black with disgusting crud (patina, lol). Plating is cheap enough to not have to find out if you have an allergy or not. _________________ "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: raw brass mouthpiece
Speaking from experience..... When I spent the summer at Busch Gardens in VA years ago, I played on a raw brass mouthpiece. About 2-3 weeks into the summer I developed a tightness in my chest and would have headaches almost every day. At first I thought I was playing too hard but when a friend suggested I get my mouthpiece plated, I did. The symptoms vanished after 2 days. Just be careful.
I played on a raw brass mouthpiece for a while in 1970 and promptly developed a very irritated lip area where the mouthpiece was placed. To this day, I have scar tissue where that irritation was. I found out later that the brass used to make brass instrument mouthpieces has a considerable lead content which makes it easier to cut and form the mouthpiece. Some people can play with a raw brass rim (Charlie Schleuter is one of these people). I, however, would not recommend it.
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 2156 Location: Jackson NC 27845
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject:
Why couldn't a mpc be cast entirely in solid sterling silver or solid 10K gold and then machined to specs and tolerances. Then I wouldn't play it except on special occasions, I'd just display it .
Lead in old raw brass is toxic. Docs say it affects your brain.
Joined: 14 Aug 2009 Posts: 2156 Location: Jackson NC 27845
Posted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:51 pm Post subject:
James B. Quick wrote:
Is the Brain a necessary component of trumpet playing? I have an old mellophone with no plating left on the mthpce. I get a metallic taste in my mouth if I play it. I think it is very unhealthy. jbqd
Geez, My brain must have been put in my skull to do some function, not much else it can do as well lately.
Get yourself a new Larry Kerchner from IYM. It's heavy as h*** as made to counter-balance mellophone marching / trumpet configuration but I think it's super. Somebody else must have also as they stole my first one ... so I was forced to get replacement. Is your old mellophone in configuration of French horn except right hand fingering? Bb, Eb, or F?
My older brother played an Eb in HS, and I now have Yammy F.
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: Playing on a raw brass mouthpiece
johntpt wrote:
There might be a difference between newer and vintage raw brass mouthpieces - maybe today's RB mouthpieces are made without lead.
I think it is more likely that the brass used to make modern mouthpieces will contain lead.
Most mouthpieces are made using modern computer controlled machines and the lead content makes the brass more machinable and facilitates a better surface finish due to its lubricating properties.
The lead content is around 2% which is very significant.
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:31 pm Post subject: brass
Brass is very soft, it is quite porous, compared to many metals, and is borderline toxic, in contact with skin and from swallowing saliva floating around in your mouth when u play.
Dirt remains on the soft surface and is absorbed.
The angles on the inside, high point and outside edge also penetrate the lip surface as your chops move when playing.
Don't play on brass.
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:49 pm Post subject:
johntpt wrote:
Raw Brass mouthpieces are very common in the baroque world - many popular mouthpieces (Egger for example) are sold and played in raw brass.
They also thought bathing was unhealthy during that period of history. Bleeding and leaches were commonly used to cleanse a patient's "humours." Also, most people believed the sun revolved around the earth.
Just because they did it or thought it back then doesn't mean it's a good idea or the right idea.
People back then had an excuse - ignorance. People sometimes have a similar issue today, but today it's more likely willful ignorance. The information is there for everyone, if you choose to ignore it, that's your problem.
mcgovnor wrote:
Brass is very soft, it is quite porous, compared to many metals, and is borderline toxic, in contact with skin and from swallowing saliva floating around in your mouth when u play.
Exactly. Not to mention the lips are the most porous surface on your body - it's easy to absorb things through them - good or bad.
Do as you wish. It's your body, your health, and your problem. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn
Joined: 27 Dec 2007 Posts: 1298 Location: Everywhere
Posted: Sat Feb 27, 2010 5:36 am Post subject:
Get it plated. Simplest thing, but if you really want to, you could send the raw brass piece to kanstul and have it re machined into a new piece, even stainless steel.
Just an option. _________________ Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.
Most of the horn is in raw brass too... You'll get used to the taste after a while.
The problem is not in getting used to the taste. It is in that you are absorbing lead (Pb) from the raw brass, especially from the mouthpiece that goes directly into your digestive system. The presence of enzymes in saliva greatly increases the rate of leaching of the lead. Lead is a cumulative poison, that is, your body cannot effectively dispose of it, and any extra amount absorbed stays in. Look up "lead poisoning".
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