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Parduba - Original -or- Akright



 
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Lex Grantham
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: East Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:58 am    Post subject: Parduba - Original -or- Akright Reply with quote

I am curious. I have read about players having "original" Parduba mouthpieces, and then Dick Akright produces his newer Parduba mouthpieces.

Can one lay two Parduba mouthpieces side by side and know how to determine if one is original and the other an Akright creation?

I ask because I have a Parduba 5.5 trumpet mouthpiece, and since I bought it new a few months ago, it is an Akright. Then I have a Parduba 6.5 trumpet mouthpiece that I either bought or acquired (do not remember now), and it was used...even appeared much older. How do I determine whether this mouthpiece is original or not?

Thank you for your assistance.

Lex Grantham
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VetPsychWars
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of an old one on the left and a new one on the right.



The new ones will have evenly-spaced and aligned lettering and a "frosty" finish on much of the blank. Also note the narrow groove in the shank.

The old ones won't have that groove, I don't think, and the lettering will be uneven as they appear to have been stamped by hand.

Tom
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Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
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Lex Grantham
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: East Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:27 am    Post subject: Good Pictures Reply with quote

Tom:

Thank you for the pictures. By what you show, my Parduba 6.5 is an original mouthpiece.

Thank You again.

Lex Grantham
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Mark Curry
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

from what I learned from Dick Akright (owner of Parduba Mouthpieces AND also Rudy Muck) he purchased the original tooling from the owners of Parduba.

After examining both old and new models, they both feature the same machining marks and the new Pardubas are Remarkably similar to the old originals.

For instance, the exterior blank shape was cut by form tools and shapers, and the shank taper was cut by what old-time machine shops called a shank tool (a specially constructed tool that featured a cutting blade set at the specific taper to be used. This tool not only cut the correct taper, but burnished the mouthpiece shank at the same time- Ingenious!)

Rims and cups are also cut with shapers and the backbores appear Identical to the originals.

But what knocks me out is the custom-made stamps that mark the mouthpiece size and stars on the curved exterior of the cup. Most likely, these were made by a highly skilled hand engraver many decades ago.

All in all, quite the testament to the highly skilled machinists of the past!


MC
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stevecass
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both of those pieces look in really great shape. Any idea of the date of the "original" on the left?

Here's a H. James model personally owned/used by Harry James that dates to the 50's.





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trumpetera
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW!!

That throat opening/2nd cup looks massive!

Would it be possible for you to post a pic more from the side? I'd love to see if the cup is as shallow as it looks!

All the best!

trumpetera
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevecass wrote:
Both of those pieces look in really great shape. Any idea of the date of the "original" on the left?


I'm afraid not. They changed over the years. I have a 5 that is VERY old and has a shallower cup than the more modern ones. I've speculated that the James model has the same depth cup as the oldest piece and the standard models got deeper over the years, but without a James model to compare...

And no, Steve, I can't afford yours.

Tom
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Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org
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stevecass
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure, I'll take some side pics to try and show the shallowness.

This piece is from my father's collection. I remember he always looked at that piece in dis-belief wondering how Mr. James could have used it and had the success he had with it. But I did blow into it and I seem to have been able to blast pretty good with it I was surprised! lol But it was a very quick test to see if I could feel that second cup and though I could, It didn't bother me so much. But it is odd to look at. This piece will probably be with me forever as I don't think I'd ever get what I think it's worth. Impossible to price these kinda things.

Another person wrote that it appeared to be "a modified H. James model" because they said Harry used an older model, not the H. James model, but endorsed the "H. James model". They also asked if my father had modified the piece, because the second cup is "true" to what Mr. James played and not that of the "standard H. James model". But no he never mentioned this. James had to have used it because as I said my father didn't "believe in it" and how would he have known what to "modify" it to what he was using? This was a piece Mr. James gave my father directly to show him exactly what he was using so that he would have a go at making him something else that he could relate to. My father then made him a piece but James stuck with his Parduba. I'm sure my father's piece resembled NOTHING so radical, other than possibly the shape of the rim and depth of the cup with more of a smoother transition to the throat.

Ok, I'll go take a couple/few more pics.
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stevecass
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For comparison, thought I'd post these 3 together. Left is the Dizzy Gillespie Al Cass 2-24A(which was re-plated by Gillespie at some point), middle Harry James Parduba 5 double cup and right Louis Armstrong Giardinelli(no size indicated)



Armstrong/James/Gillespie. What I see, or realize, in this pic is that ALL 3 pieces have a "double" cup of sorts. The Giardinelli and Cass' first cup is the "bite", then goes into the "second cup" more discreetly. Where the Parduba seems to have no bite and is much more distinct between 1st and 2nd cup.
Does this make sense to anyone else? So in essence, all pieces that have that first bite/curve, have 2 cups. I never looked at it like this before. Really, the James/Parduba second cup isn't all that extreme, as the Cass & Giardinelli have larger "2nd cups", just not with that sudden drop off!? The Parduba does seem by the pics to have a little bit of a bite but it doesn't. Or if it does, is very slight, but even so.... (please excuse my stupidity!) Thanks for asking me to take these extra pics!



Last edited by stevecass on Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total
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VetPsychWars
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Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

STEVE! That one pic confirms it. The piece I have is the same depth as your James model in the first cup. I am now more inclined to believe that the James model is basically the "original" depth and that later models of Parduba mouthpieces were deeper.

The backbore on my old Parduba is different from the later models I've had, too, so it would be interesting to see whether the James model backbore is also different.

Tom
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Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org
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razeontherock
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve, more than one modern mpc maker says ALL trpt cups are double cups. You're on to something there. The second cup of the Parduba has a VERY sharp bite, and I think HJ must have put basically NO chop in the mpc to play. Personally, I do better with a smoother transition, which goes along w/ GR's "no discontinuities" rule.

Still, when I look at these 3 across I see lots of similarities. Never knew Pops played a Giardinelli! And the basic cup shape of all these is very similar to Callet's Superchops 2 & 3, which was copied from a Calicchio.
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