17d4d

sean007r · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 8:49 pm Post subject:

What is similar to a Schilke 17d4d?

and

why would another trumpet player recommend this to someone who is struggling with range?

little insider information...
he works for Schilke but I don't think he benefits much from my little purchase at my local music store!!!!
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2002 9:34 pm Post subject:

Someplace in the range of a Bach 1 1/2 B or deeper with #26 throat and a symphonic backbore (much bigger than the #10). I used to play a drilled out 1 1/2 C and the regular Schilke 17 and thought they were similar.
I have not taught for 20 years but that certainly would not be my suggestion for a come back player with register problems. I do however remember a 7th grader who put so much lip in his Olds student mouthpiece that he could barely play. I gave him a Bach 1 1/2 C and he was outplaying the High School trumpet players in a few weeks. Immediate difference in his sound.

Paul.Trumpet · Posted: Wed Feb 20, 2002 4:41 pm Post subject:

Schilke 17D4d is a massively deep cup and open backbore which creates huge tone for orchestra use and has a cushion rim. It is more like a cornet mouthpiece. It is actually like a Bach 1 in size or bigger. The Bach 1 1/2C is similar to a Schilke 14B, or 0.67" or 17.00mm mouthpiece diameter. An easier to play mouthpiece would be a Schilke 12, which is designed to be a better 7C size mpc with more brilliance and better execution. You could go try a GR Tech 65M or 66M as well if you want to cheat and make life easier.

Andy Cooper · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2002 1:24 pm Post subject:

This might be a good topic for another post - the published Schilke mouthpiece measurements do not match my playing impression or the "penny test" to test the diameter. Of course comparing them to a Bach is tricky anyway - I have several Schilke 17's and they are larger than a Bach 1 1/2 C I have but smaller in diameter that a Bach 1 1/2 B.

sean007r · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:39 am Post subject:

pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

Actually with respect to range, a particular mouthpiece will probably not appreciably extend one's range in either direction. For example I can play Double Pedal Cs through G above high C on mouthpieces ranging from a Schilke 20E (huge) to a Schilke 14A4A (shallow cup with tight backbore).

However, if I were playing in an environment where most of the music is above the staff I would certainly use a mouthpiece that was more efficient for producing those tones, i.e. shallow cup with a tighter backbore.

The 17D4D has a very comfortable rim and it will certainly allow high notes to come out very well. I am by no means a high note expert, but many times I will "top off the chord" at the request of my section for the ending of a song. This involves a lot of notes from Bb to F above high C. I will always do this with a 17D4 or a 17D4D.

The best advice for anyone wanting to play high notes is for them to find a mouthpiece that they like and then practice exercises that facilitate range development.
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Andy Cooper · Posted: Sat Feb 23, 2002 6:22 pm Post subject:

"Penny Test" set a penny on edge in the rim and note how the "bite" lines up with the letters in United States of America. No - it is not very accurate but it can tell you if one mouthpiece is larger or smaller in diameter than another.

sean007r · Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2002 7:48 pm Post subject:

so I'm getting used to the 17d4d now...
didn't expect any increase in range, but the first week it was a struggle to hit stuff above the staff.

A couple of weeks have passed and everything seems to be back to where it was and I felt good tonight at "big band" rehearsal hitting a D above the staff after 1 1/2 - 2 hours.

However, for kicks and giggles, when I got home I installed the old 13a4a and WOW!!!!
everything above the staff came sooo easy!
I still didn't have much improvement past G above the staff, but just seemed effortless!

Why?
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big brian · Veteran Member Joined: 06 Nov 2001 Posts: 440

trickg · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 8:17 am Post subject:

If I were you, I would find something a little more moderate in size like a 3 or 5C and stick with that. I also agree that if you keep changing the equipment you are playing, you can't develop any consistency with what you are doing.
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pedaltonekid · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Nov 2001 Posts: 1711

If the 17D4D is working well for you and you find it comfortable, by all means stick with it. I think it is a good idea to have a primary mouthpiece and use it most of the time, but it is certainly possible (and probably desirable) to have a couple of different pieces for different situations.

It may be possible to do everything with one mouthpiece, but the right selection will make certain aspects of your playing easier to achieve. e.g. 17D4D for legit playing and a shallower cup/tighter backbore for commerical work.

A carpenter has many tools in his toolbox and will use whichever one is most appropriate. It might be possible to fix everything with a hammer and duct tape, but there are often more efficient methods.
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sean007r · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 1:40 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the candid replies and no harm done!

However, while I was playing with the 13a4a for a few minutes, everyone will be happy to know I stuffed it back into the closet when I was done.

What I thought was curious, which is what prompted the last question, was...
Whywas were "my" high notes soooo easy to hit with the 13a4a?
I've been told many times that a mouthpiece WILL NOT increase my range and yet I found it was soooo easy to play above the staff with a 13a4a after playing all night on a 17d4d.

and

should I ass-U-me anything from this little experience?

after all...
after 2 weeks with the 17d4a everything is back to normal. Range hasn't improved and endurance hasn't suffered so....
Why not go bigger still????

which brings us back to a question I posted a few weeks ago about MP science!
Is there a method, by which I can take some lip, teeth and mouth measurements and determine EXACTLY the tools (MP) I need???
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Sean
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Paul.Trumpet · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 5:40 pm Post subject:

You cannot make any comparison between two extremes of mouthpiece. 13A4a has a horrible tone compared to 17D4d and takes less effort to play as it is smaller in every way. It's also less flexible.

YOU are responsible for picking what sounds right and gives the best balance of playing abilities to you. Now try a middle size 14B and see what that feels like - nobody can tell you what will happen over emails.

walter · Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2002 7:39 pm Post subject:

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 07:19 ]