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jgambill Regular Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 26 Location: Fredericksburg, VA
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:38 pm Post subject: Flugelhorn Recommendations |
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I want to get a Flugelhorn and I am considering either the Yamaha 631, the Kanstul 1525 or a Getzen 4 valve. Would love to hear opinions on these horns from members who have played or owned them. Both the good and the bad and if you have another horn that I should consider I would like to hear that also.
Thanks,
jgambill |
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oljackboy Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 290
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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The Getzen 'Knudt Hovaldt' 4-valve flugel is okay in its way but it is a large bore and sounds a lot like a trombone. I bought one back in '74, kept it for a while, traded it for a Getzen 'Eterna' 3-valve. Nice horn, still tromboney. The Kanstul is going to play a lot differently, nice fluffy sound,
particulary with a deep cup mouthpiece. Wish I could recommend the Getzens, nice valves and all, just not a fit with my flugelhorn sound concept. People like the Kanstul, you ought to try one. |
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kpw Regular Member
Joined: 03 Mar 2010 Posts: 65
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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If you're planning to go to Dillon's make a point to check out their name-brand flugel. Not a Kanstul, doesn't have the four valves like the Getzen, but it's based off of the Yamaha 631, and worth a shot IMO. _________________ Bach AB190 | Bach 229/25H | Schilke E3 Eb/D | Schilke P5-4 | Schilke G1L E/F/G |Getzen 3850 Bb Cornet | Dillon Flugelhorn |
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shofarguy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Sep 2007 Posts: 7016 Location: AZ
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:29 pm Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Recommendations |
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jgambill wrote: | I want to get a Flugelhorn and I am considering either the Yamaha 631, the Kanstul 1525 or a Getzen 4 valve. Would love to hear opinions on these horns from members who have played or owned them. Both the good and the bad and if you have another horn that I should consider I would like to hear that also.
Thanks,
jgambill |
Since you are choosing a professional level flugelhorn, I believe you should also try a Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn. In relation to the Getzen, it has a smoother more velvety sound. In comparison to the Kanstul 1525, it has a denser core and plays more freely and intuitively, IMO.
I have no exposure to the Yamaha that I know of. I have played a few models and have heard some played, but I'm not sure which ones they were.
Flip sets up every single horn he sells with extensive work wherever it is needed to ensure that your horn plays and functions as it was designed to do. This includes a vertical and rotational Digital Valve Alignment (logged in Flip's records for future maintenance), removal of excess solder from the interior of the horn, truing of the tubing bore at solder joints and more.
Current horns have ergonomic improvements that make the Wild Thing one of the most comfortable flugels to hold and play. Either Flip's newly released Extreme Flugelhorn mouthpiece or his standard flugelhorn mouthpiece can be included in any of his rim sizes. The horn comes in your choice of single or double case and is available in Lacquer or Silver plate. Gold plating is also available by special order at market value.
Brian _________________ Brian A. Douglas
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Bb Trumpet in copper
Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn in copper
There is one reason that I practice: to be ready at the downbeat when the final trumpet sounds. |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed, if you don't get a Kanstul go for the WT. (Still a Kanstul )
Try a Cacia if you can. |
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Flattergrub Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Sep 2008 Posts: 762
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Dan O'Donnell Heavyweight Member
Joined: 01 Jan 2005 Posts: 2287
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously, we will all say "the one we play is the best"...however, my input is this...
At LEAST play test a Kanstul 925 w/ Copper Bell before you make your final decision.
I've play tested MANY Flugelhorns (including the Wild Thing, Kanstul's 1525 etc. ect. etc.) over the past (25)+ years and for ME...Kantul's 925 w/Copper bell is the best Flugelhorn I have ever played.
The Flugelhorn that is best for YOU will be based on the playability and sound YOU are looking for based on the music YOU play which is a very personal decision.
I happily played on a Besson Brevete Flugelhorn by Kanstul for many years until I played Kanstul's 925 w/Copper Bell.
Many years ago, trying to get a darker (yet NOT Trombonish) sound from my Flugelhorn (which I personally get from Kanstul's 1525 Flugelhorn). I spoke with Zig Kanstul about replacing the bell on my Besson Brevete with a Copper Bell.
He rightfully discouraged me from cutting up my horn and recommended building a new horn for me with the copper bell.
The problem was that due to it being a "custom" horn, I would have to pay for the horn even I didn't like it after play testing it.
I wasn't willing to take the chance so I kept playing my horn.
Just recently, I saw a Kanstul 925 w/Copper Bell at Anaheim Band Instruments (ABI)... tried it and fell in love with both the playability and tone quality!
I then found that Zig is now making them as a "stock" horn.
The 925 is almost identical to the Besson Brevete....413 bore, straight tubing through the valve block etc.
For the most part...only the Amati spit valves on the 925 (vs. traditional spit valves) are different than the Besson Brevete.
I hope this helps YOU find the best Flugelhorn for YOU and the music YOU play! _________________ God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell
"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3 |
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jhahntpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Apr 2010 Posts: 680 Location: Southington CT
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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From the little experience I have on Flugel, I can safely tell you that the Getzen 4 valve is a trumpet on steroids. It doesn't sound like the others that have been mentioned at all. If you're looking at Getzen the custom series one that they put out is definitely one of the best options. If you're just looking for cost effectiveness, grab a Dillon Flugel with a rose brass bell, for $525 those things play quite nicely. _________________ Bb: Yamaha 9335NY Gen3
Bb: Yamaha 8310Z
C: Shires 4S/W1B
Piccolo: Yamaha 9830
Flugel: Yamaha 8315G
Cornet: York Eminence |
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MrOlds Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Apr 2003 Posts: 732 Location: California
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious about the high-end recommendations. I might play 100 notes a month on my flug. Fortunately I only paid $50 for it in 1980. It is a student-level Olds.
My thought is that if it plays "good enough" and you're not specializing in playing the flug, maybe the high-end money could be better spent on something else.
Just saying... |
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Adam V Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 1765 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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[deleted] _________________ 1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel
Marcinkiewicz E3/3C
Last edited by Adam V on Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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fraserhutch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2548 Location: Oakville, ON Canada
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:27 am Post subject: Re: Flugelhorn Recommendations |
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I'm with Brian ion this. I have owned both a Yamaha 631 and a Kanstul 1525, and I have played numerous others. I now or a WT flugel and consider my flugel safari over.
I have had a number f my band mates try my WT, including a die-hard Cousenon (sp?) lover and all have loved the wt.
'nuff said.
However, YMMV, and you really owe it to yourself to try as many as can.
Then get yourself a WT
shofarguy wrote: | jgambill wrote: | I want to get a Flugelhorn and I am considering either the Yamaha 631, the Kanstul 1525 or a Getzen 4 valve. Would love to hear opinions on these horns from members who have played or owned them. Both the good and the bad and if you have another horn that I should consider I would like to hear that also.
Thanks,
jgambill |
Since you are choosing a professional level flugelhorn, I believe you should also try a Flip Oakes Wild Thing Flugelhorn. In relation to the Getzen, it has a smoother more velvety sound. In comparison to the Kanstul 1525, it has a denser core and plays more freely and intuitively, IMO.
I have no exposure to the Yamaha that I know of. I have played a few models and have heard some played, but I'm not sure which ones they were.
Flip sets up every single horn he sells with extensive work wherever it is needed to ensure that your horn plays and functions as it was designed to do. This includes a vertical and rotational Digital Valve Alignment (logged in Flip's records for future maintenance), removal of excess solder from the interior of the horn, truing of the tubing bore at solder joints and more.
Current horns have ergonomic improvements that make the Wild Thing one of the most comfortable flugels to hold and play. Either Flip's newly released Extreme Flugelhorn mouthpiece or his standard flugelhorn mouthpiece can be included in any of his rim sizes. The horn comes in your choice of single or double case and is available in Lacquer or Silver plate. Gold plating is also available by special order at market value.
Brian |
_________________ Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces |
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Fleebat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2058 Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Adam V,
Those characterizations are a matter of taste. To me, the Kanstul 1525 sounds like a trombone with someone's socks stored in it; not "velvety."
Like Kanstul, Yamaha makes (and has made) a fairly wide variety of flugelhorns. The 631 and 731, having larger, trumpet-sized bores of .460, can sound very "trumpety" if played like a trumpet. However, the Shew model and its predecessor, the 635, is based on the older, French design (Couesnon, Besson, Courtois), with a smaller bore (my 635 is .413). These horns sound lighter, more delicate. Some have described the sound as "fluffy."
The ML-bore Yamahas - 631, 731 - along with some Getzens in similar bore are a popular choice with players who play very little flugel, maybe as a double in big bands, and expect and want the horn to play more like a trumpet. Yes, you can make them sound "trumpety" if you just blast away into them ignorantly as if they were trumpets. They're not. As with cornets, if you take the time to develop your playing on flugel as a unique instrument with its own blow, feel, personality and sound, the rewards can be great. Many players who take this approach find that the smaller-bore instruments work better for them.
The Kanstul 1525 is, I believe, a small-bore flugel. Its darker sound is derived from the large bell and other design elements. Its become popular with big-band players and some soloists in recent years to play with a VERY dark flugel sound (I call it "trombone-like"), and this model fits that bill. Not my favorite sound, but many like it. The classic flugel sound is lighter, more lyrical. To hear good classic sound out of small-bore flugels, you can check out Randy Brecker (Yamaha 635), Bobby Shew (his own Yamaha model) and Ingrid Jensen (my favorite flugel sound on the planet... she plays a vintage Couesnon). To hear what can be done with a darker flugel sound, check out the smooth jazz guys. They seem to love the dark, trombone-ey thing.
To the OP: you also might want to do a search & read the recent threads about new Yamaha models. People who've played the prototypes have mostly given very positive reviews.
BTW, I have an 80s 635 that sounds wonderful. Records well, too.
Rusty Russell |
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etc-etc Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008 Posts: 6209
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:01 am Post subject: |
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You might want to consider also the YFH-6310Z (Bobby Shew model) which is now closed out. Very fine instrument. |
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leen1610 Regular Member
Joined: 20 Apr 2009 Posts: 26 Location: Gorinchem, the netherlands
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:18 am Post subject: |
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I would go for a Van Laar flugelhorn. Have one myself and they are really the best!! Take a look here what Arturo Sandoval thinks of his Van Laar Oiram ACK flugel http://www.hubvanlaar.nl/content/nl/123/referenties
And the look great too......................[/img] _________________ Van Laar B4 trumpet/Bach 3C
Van Laar OIRAM II/Reeves 42M, S
Van Laar OIRAM flugelhorn/Reeves 42F/42dF
Benge PKT pocket trumpet FOR SALE! |
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ohiotpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 990
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:29 am Post subject: |
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MrOlds wrote: | I'm curious about the high-end recommendations. I might play 100 notes a month on my flug. Fortunately I only paid $50 for it in 1980. It is a student-level Olds.
My thought is that if it plays "good enough" and you're not specializing in playing the flug, maybe the high-end money could be better spent on something else.
Just saying... |
I just had a few of the local college trumpet majors over for a mini-trumpet try. (i.e PLEASE, I need to find homes for too many horns!).
The Flugelhorn selection included the Eterna 4 valve, Getzen Custom Series, A Besson/Kanstul, a Weirl/LA-SAX (don't ask), and a $75 Cuenonon flugelhorn. Despite the superior construction of every other horn they all voted for the Cuenonon.
For B-Flat?
I thought the Getzen 3003 sounded amazing...but the favorite was the Kanstul 1600WB (If anyone has one for sale at College student price...I have a buyer for you..since mine ain't for sale). The 3003 might sound better in front of the horn, this might be that "feedback" thing we talk about or that the ovate lead pipe and larger bore gives less resistance in the 3003. _________________ -fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Florida Treasure Coast area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by. |
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oljackboy Veteran Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 290
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:37 am Post subject: |
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I play the Taylor Standard in copper. It is a .413 small-bore and is pretty heavy. Mine is also laquered, which may darken it even more. It is smoky and soft-sounding, perfect in the small rooms I play in. BTW, I play it much more than my Bb, which often has a harmon mute in it. I will say that if I were going to buy another flugelhorn, I'd get anotther one just like it. |
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mpo Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Apr 2008 Posts: 577
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:51 am Post subject: |
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Fleebat wrote: |
Like Kanstul, Yamaha makes (and has made) a fairly wide variety of flugelhorns. The 631 and 731, having larger, trumpet-sized bores of .460, can sound very "trumpety" if played like a trumpet. |
Actually, the 631/731 have a .433 bore.
For me, the most important part of the flugel "sound" is the mouthpiece. |
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2-5-1 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 1381
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:00 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | If you want bright and trumpety... Yamaha. |
Bright? Maybe if overblown. But why would you want to play a flugel like a trumpet? _________________ www.mikesailorsmusic.com |
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Fleebat Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2002 Posts: 2058 Location: Nashville, TN
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:07 am Post subject: |
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"Actually, the 631/731 have a .433 bore."
Right you are. Up too late posting again - sorry. In Yamaha's literature, the larger bore is said to "help with the transition from trumpet to flugelhorn."
RR
Last edited by Fleebat on Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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MikeyMike Heavyweight Member
Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 1680
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Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:08 am Post subject: |
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ohiotpt wrote: | PLEASE, I need to find homes for too many horns!
The Flugelhorn selection included...
a $75 Cuenonon flugelhorn. |
SOLD!!!
Always glad to help, Fred! _________________ Ahh... that old case smell. |
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