Phrasing

[sean007r]

So I'm reading a TON about playing the trumpet and a key factor is how we breath...
and the net result is shown in phrasing.

Anywho this one book, The Trumpeters Handbook states that taking in too much air is just as bad as not enough... WHY

I often find after playing a medium to long phrase that I have an excessive amount of air left over and quickly discharge it only to quickly inhale for the next phrase.

Can I assume by this that I'm breathing incorrectly?



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~iii<0 Sean 0>iii~

[ This Message was edited by: sean007r on 2002-02-27 23:25 ]

[_Don Herman]

Two schools of thought (at least!):

(1) Always take in all you can -- it's free, and you'll play better if you never fall below the half-way mark (or so ) of your capacity. This results in good sound with good endurance as pressure is minimized by having more than enough air at all times. If you can keep blowing, the sound (vibrations of the lips) can ride the airflow. When you run low, you must resort to pressure to play because there's not enough fuel (airflow) to maintain sufficient vibration for relaxed, full, sound.

(2) Excess air causes excess tension, so you want to take in just enough, or maybe just a bit more, to get through the phrase. This results in a nice balance of air and tension without that "overfull" feeling of tightness in the chest and without needing to force a fast exhale of lots air before inhaling again. The latter causes excess tension and makes "taking a breath" a more prolonged two-stage process.

Who's right? Hey, man, I'm a simple country boy retread player what ain't got the slightest idee-err! FWIW, I subscribe to (1), as for me if I do (2) and am just a hair off (i.e., ain't got quite enough hair...errr, air! for the job) then pressure returns in spades and I'm in a death spiral (sound- and endurance-wise). I think the excess tension is because people try to overfill beyond their capacity. OTOH, it's equally likely that I've not developed well enough to accurately judge the amount of air required for a phrase when I see it, and so blow it (so to speak!)

HTH, or at least provides some amusement for those who will follow with the real answers - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[NCTrumpet]

Filling up the lungs to their maximum capacity is not, I believe, a good thing. This promotes tension as the body has to almost contort to allow the last bit of lung to be filled. Upon exhaling, expelling all of one's air creates tension as well. Both extremes of air usage are difficult to pull off without some sort of discomfort.

I shouldn't use percentages, but I inhale to about 85% of my body's capacity and exhale to a minimum of 10-15%.

However, one should always strive for a maximum comfortable breath in pursuit of the fullest sound possible. Whether the dynamic is pp or ff, sound should be a consequence of a full, proper supply of air.

JC.

[ This Message was edited by: NCTrumpet on 2002-02-28 12:47 ]

[trickg]

FWIW, I usually tend to breath to the phrase, meaning, if I don't need a ton of air to play a certain passage or phrase, I don't breathe that much, and then there are times that I actually will write "tank up!" on the page because if I don't I won't have enough air to get though the whole passage.

I've never really spent a lot of time thinking about it (maybe I should, it might make me a much better player) but I have spent time thinking about relaxation while playing and that has a great deal to do with breathing.
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[walter]

[ This Message was edited by: walter on 2002-09-20 07:17 ]

[comebackkid]

I highly recommend the use of deep breathing exercises. Claude Gordon perscribed them as follows:

- Inhale for ten counts (to full capacity)
- Hold for ten counts
- Exhale for ten count (till all air is expelled)
- Hold for ten counts
- Repeat

Claude recomended initially doing this stationary, and later progressing to doing it while walking, and later while jogging (I have never tried it while jogging).
The benefits are as follows:
- Total lung capacity seems to increase
- Muscle used for exhalation are strengthened (this is great for the upper register)
- You become more comfortable with both extremes. There is less tension when totally full and when totally empty.

Give it a try......It can only help!

[Quadruple C]

[ This Message was edited by: Quadruple C on 2003-12-18 13:50 ]

[tcutrpt]

I never really understood the whole inhaling and then HOLDING the air and then exhaling. On trumpet we always say that you should never hold the air before playing, but that you should always release the air immediately after inhaling. Why then are breathing exercises that are designed to hold the air before release used? That has been on my mind for awhile. Maybe you guys can clear it up. Personally, when I have tried that in the past, it promoted a tight chest and my breathing actually suffered on trumpet. Maybe I just did it wrong?

Matt

[trumpetteacher1]

A lot of the confusion being expressed here is a result of mixing up the physical requirements of practice and performance.

I come from a school of thought where practice is frequently about breaking boundries and stretching your limits. Performance is more about playing within those limits.

The Claude Gordon/Maggio/whomever breathing exercise described above is done to purposely exceed your normal limits, and increase your lung capacity. It's not a model of how you breath during performance.

As for the concerns about inappropriate tensions being created by overfilling the lungs, breathing exercises, etc., I have to disagree. I think that a lot of this comes from teachers who are biased in this direction, because they address these tensions as primary problems, when they are actually either temporary developmental issues, or are side effects of an embouchure inefficiency. As a result, the students deal with these tensions ON THE SAME LEVEL AS THE PROBLEM, by attempting to relax, or take in less air, or whatever. In short, the student worries about it because the teacher worries about it.

You may argue that I am wrong, but the reality is, my students tend to not have these kinds of complaints. The only reason I know that these issues are treated so seriously, is by talking to other teachers, and reading about them on places like this forum.

Jeff Smiley
http://www.trumpetteacher.net

[mafields627]

I see a lot of talk about breathing and tension. I've been taught, and agree with, that tension is a sign of inefficient breathing. I'm just guessig that the tension is in your upper chest, which means that's where the tension is. When I breath, I make hardly no sound and drive my stomach forward and "breath" from that region. I also find that if I drive my stomach forward on the exhale, I can eliminate much of the tension. Those two concepts, combined, I have worked on for over a semester but, my tone has opened up from a pinched high school tone to a soaring college/pro tone.

Also, on the issue of not storing air before playing. I agree with that for most times but, I've found that when I have an entrance such as a staccato 8th note, I find it easier to breath and then use the tongue as a valve to control the air. I almost never frack the note doing it that way.

$.02, IMHO, etc.
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No representation is made that the quality of this post is greater than the quality of that of any other poster. Oh, and get a teacher!

[_Don Herman]

In case I created some confusion, allow me to note that teachers such as mine and Jacobs (who taught my teacher) do not suggest grossly "overfilling" when playing. Rather, most suggestions I have seen to to stay between 1/3 and 2/3, or 1/4 to 3/4, orf your total capacity. I think that some teachers may overemphasize filling up to the point that excess tension is created, a position [perhaps along the lines of Jeff's. However, in my experience, 9 time out of 10 I have a problem it's because I didn't take in enough air, whether I didn't fill up (appropriately) to begin with, or didn't take a breath when needed (just one more measure, I can.. make.. it... aaarrrghhhh!)

FWIW - Don
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Don Herman/Monument, CO
"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music." - Aldous Huxley

[Yoinks]

If you want to learn to phrase, go get the Melodious Etudes for Trombone book by Rochut(sp?), I think it has even been perhaps adapted for trumpet now, but reading bass cleff is good for you, and later on you can use it as a transposing exercise to after reading it as written for a bit.