Double Feeling

[lubonv]

Hello all,

Yesterday I was playing in a mic doing some exercises and I think I discovered something.

Straight to the point: the more I have the feeling of 'friction' in the mouth by the compression of the forward tongue with the back of the lips the more the sound out on the mic placed close to the bell is crystal clear.

Doing it, it seem to be a contradiction, because the sensation felt in the mouth is not at all the one of a good sound, but listening to a serie of repeated notes done with more and more 'strange' sensation in the mouth (by more and more tongue forward) the sound recorded get more and more clean and focused.

The realization is that the sensation, and the noise, of the valve generator of vibration is something very different from what comes out from the bell resonator and the two results are almost inversely proportional (on TCE).

It seems I found out that it is wrong to try to have a 'good' feeling at the source but rather it is better when I have a small, stuffed vibration by compression of the little air, which take less effort and seems a little wierd.

I'll try out more but for now I'm less afraid of sticking the tongue out more, even if at the source it seems to produce a very strange effect.

I suggest you try this out and please let me know of your experiments.
Lb
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[terrys17]

Coincidence -I have been finding a similar thing. I assume by friction you mean the lips and tongue wedge oppose each other (isometric) When I over do this friction I find my sound is more focused and my slotting of higher notes (high c up to high g) is more secure. I can also play the higher notes more softly by this method. The key for me is to focus on this friction and not over blow. This also increases my endurance as I use less pressure on the outside of the lips.

[lubonv]

Yes, it is something like this, have you recorded yourself listening more to the sensation than to the sound?

In my case, being the bell away from the face and being the inner buzzing (friction) quite important in the face and transmitting itself loudly through the bones to the ears I would say that this seems not good for the sound, but when listening to the sound taken only by the mic close to the bell, wow: the more it buzz noisily here the more the sound is clear out there (and nobody hear my inner buzz of the compression-friction). Just a question of being aware of it and reproduce this effortless sensation)

Last findings: it seems now that the purer tone is the one generated 'only' in the mouthpiece cup by putting the tongue as forward as possible and not to have any mixed vibration from the mechanics of the inside of the embouchure. When you can generate the tone in front of the wedge it is pure, powerful without effort or much air and brilliant: generated only by the round symmetrical and hard 'cupola' that is the mouthpiece cup. From there it would be possible to 'blend' the tone with some more 'human' feeling from the embouchure, but without loosing the endurance, flexibility and tone generated by playing only out there.

That would be Tongue Controlled Embouchure... btw, in the light of this findings 'MSC' gives even more too much the idea of building 'traditional' chops, which would be actually the opposite process to this one, and can be confusing for the beginner (just a note, please avoid OT).

wish you control,
Lb
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"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

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[lubonv]

Also,

Just realized that the "tingle or vibration of the tongue when playing good" of which Armstrong spoke once may not have been an after-sounding-good sensation but something going on consistenly during a sustained sound. I had probably misinterpreted the matter to some point.

Lb
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"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

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[goldenhornplayer]

Lb--Perhaps you could elaborate on your definition of the word "friction". I have a feeling that this particular word is not the best choice to convey what you really mean. For example, is it a vibration that you feel? Or, is it some sort of pressure that you are noticing? If all else fails, you could even use your native Italian description and we can try to interpret as precisely as possible. That may be a last resort, however. Thanks-Ken B.
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[lubonv]

Hi Ken, is a kind of a stuffed vibration, I feel it like a valve vibration between two pourous parts but very mechanical: it doesn't seem that this kind of vibration would generate a clear sound at the bell, and before doing this recording experiments I thought it was undesiderable and that I was playing too close in the embouchure, i.e. too much tongue stuff at the point of vibration. It seemed as if I was stopping things too much with the tongue. Now I go for it confidently.
Hope this helps.

Lb
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"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

Custom Made Slide Trumpet
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[goldenhornplayer]

[lubonv]

Ken, yes is a prolongued tickling sensation during sustained notes generated by the tongue invading the small aperture between lips and getting almost in the mpc cup. The thing is that it may seem an indesiderable sensation (like if you are almost stopping a flow), but the effect at the bell resonator (as taken by the mic) is good. Listening to the sensation you may think you are playing poorly and vibration is being hindered.

Lb
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"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

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[drewwilkie86]

Friction is always the name of the game here. The more friction and isometric pressure you have between the tongue and the lips, the higher you will play! Conversely, the less friction you have between the lips and the tongue, the lower you will play.
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[goldenhornplayer]

[lubonv]

Well, 'Grip' is a good term to be used: 'friction' is what I feel during a sustained tone when holding that grip between tongue and upper lip, it is a evident sensation of inner vibration. 'Friction' is not 'flow', is more like a solid thing impeding the 'little' air to flow without vibration at the valve, is sign of a 'right' resistance in the valve, independently from the effect at the bell, and it is not the final sound but it is evident and controllable in the embouchure.

Lb
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"For if the trumpet has an uncertain sound who will prepare himself for the battle?" Paul, Ch.

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[drewwilkie86]

Hey Ken--

Yeah I would agree with using "grip" as an accurate term. It's much the same as putting your hands in a praying position, and pushing them together tightly. One hand pushes on the other with a pressure equal to the other hand, so neither moves.

This is the isometric friction, or grip, I speak of.
_________________
Drew Wilkie
-Yamaha 8340EM "Eric Miyashiro" Bb
-Kanstul "Powerbore" 3-valve Soprano Bugle
-Bob Reeves 39EX/HV(#30 throat)

HEAR ME: http://www.myspace.com/drewjwilkie