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bandsubdude
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 Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:20 pm Post subject: Help! Martin Committee...What's it worth? |
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Hey folks...a grandfather of a student of mine brought in his old trumpet, a martin committee, SN 189XXX, pretty good shape, good compression, no red rot, slides work...
Any idea what it's worth? A friend of mine says it's a '54.
Any advice is most appreciated. |
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ldwoods
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:28 pm Post subject: Re: Help! Martin Committee...What's it worth? |
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| bandsubdude wrote: | Hey folks...a grandfather of a student of mine brought in his old trumpet, a martin committee, SN 189XXX, pretty good shape, good compression, no red rot, slides work...
Any idea what it's worth? A friend of mine says it's a '54.
Any advice is most appreciated. |
Hard to predict, but seems like they fetch anywhere between $1,700 to $2,500 depending on the lunar cycle and other mysterious unrelated events.
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JonathanM
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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The bore size seems to be pretty relevant to price is what I've noticed. The large bore is believed to present the large, mellow tone that many want out of the Committee.
Seems to me that the medium bore horns, and I've noticed many of them for sale recently, do NOT bring the same dollar value. I could be wrong, but that's the way it looks to me and I've been looking fairly closely the last few days. Just, as some say, my .02 worth. 
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| JonathanM wrote: | The bore size seems to be pretty relevant to price is what I've noticed. The large bore is believed to present the large, mellow tone that many want out of the Committee.
Seems to me that the medium bore horns, and I've noticed many of them for sale recently, do NOT bring the same dollar value. I could be wrong, but that's the way it looks to me and I've been looking fairly closely the last few days. Just, as some say, my .02 worth. |
The large bore early edition (60s and before) always bing a bunch more... $3000 and up usually if they are in decent shape. The .451(.453) bore brings anywhere from $1500 to $2500 depending on condition. The premium for the 3 (large) bore is, in my opinion, in small part because of their sound and in large part because of their rarity. remember, the jazz musicians who played Committees (and there are MANY) in the 40s, 50s and 60s, were playing predominately the 2 bore. It was the premo jazz combo rig and it may still be.
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davidkoch
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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It's worthless, send it to me! 
Okay, just kidding, but depending on the bore size, it could be worth a lot, or a ton.
I really don't know why people like them so much, they are soooo out of tune. (I've found from the 5 or 6 I've played.)
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| davidkoch wrote: |
I really don't know why people like them so much, they are soooo out of tune. (I've found from the 5 or 6 I've played.) |
It's totally a function of the type of playing one does and the sound one is looking for. If you are playing small combo jazz and you want a fluid sound that the player can manipulate and transform into a "voice" then the Martin Committee was the clear choice for decades.
I know when I'm listening to Lee Morgan, Roy Eldridge, Diz and Maynard et al.... I always shake my head and declare, "Man they are pretty good but they're soooo out of tune." Right.
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davidkoch
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the point I tried to get across was that I would rather not fight the horn. Any good player can play in tune, it's just a matter of how much you have to fight the horn.
I agree that they do have a very unique voice.
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Fri Jul 30, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| davidkoch wrote: | I guess the point I tried to get across was that I would rather not fight the horn. Any good player can play in tune, it's just a matter of how much you have to fight the horn.
I agree that they do have a very unique voice. |
I get the point you're trying to make, but I question how much horn fighting Miles and others did... or even thought about doing. I think they felt the Committee allowed them to make the horn an extension of their own voice or their sound WITHOUT having to fight to get it. For the folks in that genre, the Committee was the horn that took the least amount of effort. Not for nothing, many of these guys were stoned... and fighting was not what they were about. Anyway, that's just my opinion.
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mpo
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:35 am Post subject: |
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I have a 46 Deluxe that plays pretty darn in tune. No need for the third valve slide and the horn is actually in tune with itself when you use alternate fingerings.
Every horn is different.
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davidkoch
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:41 am Post subject: |
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I guess I have been shown.
Maybe someday in my future, I'll find a great committee!
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| mpo wrote: | I have a 46 Deluxe that plays pretty darn in tune. No need for the third valve slide and the horn is actually in tune with itself when you use alternate fingerings.
Every horn is different. |
If you look at photos of the many jazz players that chose to use the Committee, you rarely see the third valve slide ring and if you do, there is no finger in it. Of course, Clifford Brown is shown in photos with his hand nowhere near the ring...Fats Navarro to I think...
But I think that this all has to do with the jazz idiom and with the mindset of these players. They play with their minds as much as their fingers.
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| davidkoch wrote: | I guess I have been shown.
Maybe someday in my future, I'll find a great committee! |
I don't think that is necessarily the case. There is music that requires absolute precision. The Committee may just not be the horn for that requirement. It tends to slide and slip. But for some music, such as small combo, bop, post bop and contemporary jazz, the characteristics of the mighty Committee are perfect. It allows the player to bend and slide along with the music and along with the concepts of what the player wants to say... the ones in his head. There was and is a reason why so many players in a particular idiom chose this make and model. I'm not sure you've only played "bad" Committees. It may simply be that the sounds in your head are not well matched to the sound a Committee best produces. Hope this makes sense to someone other than myself. I'm not even sure I'm right. But, it's the best explanation I've come up with as to the number of great players who played the Martin.
It's rather like the Hohner Marching Band (I prefer the Golden Melody model) harmonicas.... not the best harps in the line-up.... but they are the best for blues where the instrument is more a vehicle for expression than a precision reproducer of notes on a page.
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VetPsychWars
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I suspect the type of horn you learn on makes a difference. I learned on my grandfather's trumpet designed in 1937-ish and built until 1955. I tried playing a modern Getzen and I just couldn't do it, it was designed so differently.
If you learned to play a Bach in the 80s or 90s, it may well be that you'd find these older horns hard to play.
That doesn't mean they're wrong or bad... just different.
Tom
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ajr51
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry to go off topic, but I'm getting back into blues harp.
Did you mean Hohner Marine Band, or is there a Hohner Marching Band I don't know about ?[/quote] |
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davidkoch
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| VetPsychWars wrote: | I suspect the type of horn you learn on makes a difference. I learned on my grandfather's trumpet designed in 1937-ish and built until 1955. I tried playing a modern Getzen and I just couldn't do it, it was designed so differently.
If you learned to play a Bach in the 80s or 90s, it may well be that you'd find these older horns hard to play.
That doesn't mean they're wrong or bad... just different.
Tom |
I think you may be spot on. I've been playing for 8 years, and I've mostly played on newer horns, certainly ones made after the 80s. I like the way my super 20 plays, but that seems to be quite a bit different. I guess in order to give the horn a fair review, I would have to get used to it's own quirks.
Tom, you mention that your horns have very slippery slots, but I like how my horns have a very well defined center.
This could be it.
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| ajr51 wrote: | Sorry to go off topic, but I'm getting back into blues harp.
Did you mean Hohner Marine Band, or is there a Hohner Marching Band I don't know about ? |
[/quote]Yes... I never liked them so I've even forgotten the correct name. I've been playing for 45 years... YIKES I'm old.
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VetPsychWars
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| davidkoch wrote: | | VetPsychWars wrote: | I suspect the type of horn you learn on makes a difference. I learned on my grandfather's trumpet designed in 1937-ish and built until 1955. I tried playing a modern Getzen and I just couldn't do it, it was designed so differently.
If you learned to play a Bach in the 80s or 90s, it may well be that you'd find these older horns hard to play.
That doesn't mean they're wrong or bad... just different.
Tom |
I think you may be spot on. I've been playing for 8 years, and I've mostly played on newer horns, certainly ones made after the 80s. I like the way my super 20 plays, but that seems to be quite a bit different. I guess in order to give the horn a fair review, I would have to get used to it's own quirks.
Tom, you mention that your horns have very slippery slots, but I like how my horns have a very well defined center.
This could be it. |
I might not like your horns because I want mine to play when I tell them to play, not where they force me to play.
Can you bend your horn, on any pitch, a half tone or more up or down?
I never heard of "slotting" until I read this forum. In the old days, either you played in tune or you didn't.
Tom
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Retlaw
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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Tom I think you are right..you either play in tune or you don't. If you play the "dots".... in a more classical style in an ensemble you probably want a horn that slots very precisely into the centre of the note. With jazz players they don't always want the centre of the note immediately..... a strong player like Wynton can get the last bit of "juice" out of a note and I suspect it wouldn't matter to him if the horn was tight slotting or not. A strong player can take a slippery horn and play right in the middle in tune...Miles Davis as an example....equally a less experienced player might have more difficulty playing in tune. Louis played on the old horns and played some pretty "sassy" stuff.......lots of bending.
The Martin Committee has a real heritage with the jazzers of old and I think the reason is that the horn allows a real ease of expression and a sound that reaches the parts that others don't....just listen to early Chet on his Committee when he was more popular than Miles.
Walter |
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VetPsychWars
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| Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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So do the early Bueschers. Shhh. 
Tom
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Retlaw
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| Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| VetPsychWars wrote: | So do the early Bueschers. Shhh.
Tom |
 I will keep my eyes open.....I haven't seen many for sale here in the UK.....
Walter
PS If I find one I will run it by you... |
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