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LeeC Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2003 Posts: 5730
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Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 9:50 pm Post subject: |
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BobList wrote: | I've noticed most guys that have a clean, clear A have a weak C. Those with a clear, clean dubba C have trouble with the A. Not ALL players, but it just seems to be the norm.
Oh, and LeeC, I've had better results on the A by NOT protruding the jaw so much.... so, was my jaw TOO far forward?... that can be just as bad as not protruding enough.... I'm downstream..... I can only go so far....
Bob |
It's whatever works for you. Whether you can play forward jaw or not is most likely already defined by your physiology. In ways barely understandable and probably impossible to explain.
For what it's worth the interesting thing about forward jaw players (who can pull the trick off) is the way the forward setting gives an assist to range.
In order to play extreme register receded jaw players may need to compensate by developing amazing strength in their mouth corners. When my facial muscles associated with embouchure are in tip top condition I can player decent high A's to DHC or so on a receded jaw setting.
Conversely i could take a year off the horn and yet play some kind of DHC to Triple C on a forward jaw embouchure. Wouldn't play as well on that system as my natural, receded jaw setting but it would pull off some extremely high notes relatively easily.
Between the two I generally prefer to listen to a good receded jaw trumpet player. He has more tonal color, and expressive bigger sound. On average.
Maynard was playing on a mildly receded jaw. Huge tone. He might have been on the cusp of being a forward jaw player actually. Whatever he did he seemed to have the best of both worlds: Receded jaw player tone with forward jaw range.
Brisbois was forward jaw. He could sail miles above anyone and control it well. But it wasn't a truly big sound. At least not as described by Bobby Shew in the Seeley music interview.
The receded jaw player tends to have more consistency in his playing. It is less finicky with fewer chop problems too. A lot of times the forward jaw player had to use dry lips. This can limit flexibility and create all kinds of nuisances. Like how can you play in a hot climate? The sweat alone breaks down the dry lipped player's foundation.
I am told that Roy Roman learned to play the forward jaw setting dry at first but later changed to wet lips as he felt he had more consistency that way. |
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airdyn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 07 Feb 2003 Posts: 579
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:23 am Post subject: The "Flat Approach" |
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BobList wrote: | I've noticed most guys that have a clean, clear A have a weak C. Those with a clear, clean dubba C have trouble with the A. Not ALL players, but it just seems to be the norm.
Oh, and LeeC, I've had better results on the A by NOT protruding the jaw so much.... so, was my jaw TOO far forward?... that can be just as bad as not protruding enough.... I'm downstream..... I can only go so far....
Bob :D |
Bob,
Go to The Reinhardt Forum and start the topic "The Flat Approach". Super high range player Chris LaBarbera will surely have the info as to the High A with this approach.
Dave S. |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2201 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 4:38 am Post subject: |
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crzytptman wrote: | Tasting something is also highly dependent on the sense of smell. So, you should probably smell the note as well. |
I don't need to smell the notes...they already stink... _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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groovinhigher Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Aug 2002 Posts: 795 Location: Rich Wetzel
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Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:35 am Post subject: |
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I think Al Innella had some great info in his post on this if you toggle up the topic a bit.
My two cents, it's more about that and how a particular horn plays. For me, some trumpets have slotted A better with 3, some with 2, some with 12, and occassionally some by playing it open.
A combination of your chops, mouthpiece, the horn itself, and your approach can make one of those various fingerings work better for you than others, and like Al said, using the right amount of blow and dare I say, tongue position.
Some guys blow so hard nothing comes out and sometimes what you need to do is back off just a bit, figure that sweet spot to get the vibration happening and develop that feel so you can have the kind of sound and power you want on the A.
I have known guys with all kinds of jaw positions with all kinds of sounds.
Drawing across the board conclusions on which one is a big sound seems a bit of a stretch, lot's of other factors at play.
Back to the original post on slotting the A, I think if you read Al Innella's response regarding tension and the correct amount of blow and then try the different alternate fingerings to see which works better for you is the best and most practical advice on how to make that happen for you on any particular horn, be it 12, 3, 2, open, etc... that and some horns simply slot it better than others.
That part of the horn can be pesky for everyone and slightly different spot for various folks where it happens, some it is A, some it is Bb and a few even B.
Most times relaxing just a bit and experimenting with alternate fingerings is the fastest and best way to get there, then repetition over time, getting the feel on where it slots best for you on that particular horn. _________________ Rich Wetzel
Bach Artist and Clinician
Rich Wetzel's Groovin Higher Orchestra
www.richwetzel.com
www.facebook.com/rich.wetzel |
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jasongaines New Member
Joined: 27 Jul 2010 Posts: 6
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Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Definitely check out some lead trumpet teachers. Again, in LA there are a lot of awesome people to work with. Charlie Davis would be my choice. Malcolm McNab, too. |
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Capt.Kirk Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792
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Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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What MP and Trumpet are you using? Is it the B3 in your signature? I can tell you what I have seen. Some trumpets simply do not want to slot the A. I have consistently had issues with Bach's 25 pipe especially when teamed with the 37 bell. On the other hand my Mercedes with the 7 pipe and I have no idea what bell would slot A all day long in the upper register. I know a lot of people that have had issues with the Bach's in the upper register and changing the leadpipe to one that is more open always fixed the problem. On the other hand their are plenty of people that have no problem with the 25 pipe.
So I would try someone else's trumpet so if you having issues on your Schilke B3 try a friends Bach or Yamaha with your MP. Try sluring up to the note and see if you can hit it on a double tongue then try taking the trumpet away from your chops and try hitting it again.....If you find you can slot it on different gear then we know it is either your trumpet or the combination of your trumpet and MP.
I like medium deep v shaped MP for easy high register work. I think V shaped cups make upper register work easier myself then bowel or C cup shape but I am in the minority today I think.
I do not know the B3 trumpet well but a leadpipe swap might be in order. Might give Schilke factor a call and ask them about it? _________________ The only easy day was yesterday! |
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