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What student model trombone would you get?



 
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:32 pm    Post subject: What student model trombone would you get? Reply with quote

If you were getting a used student model trombone, what would you choose?
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drayhn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

most of those trombone girls are pretty ugly, no idea why they call them models anyways..
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first choice would be a Getzen my second would be Kanstul then Jupiter then Eastman.
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mcahynuacrkd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are patient some real nice used trombones sell on eBay for excellent prices. I have seen vintage Getzen and Benge and Committees , trombones like these , sell for less than the cost of a bright and shiny brand new beginner model.
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CRoberts8
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

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mcahynuacrkd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the students price range?

I see a lot of great used high quality trombones. Why spend the $$$ on a student trombone that in a few years won't be worth much when much better trombones are so inexpensive.

Will the student take care of the horn?

With trombones, except for the larger bores, many intermediate and pro level trombones are not difficult for a kid to play.

I have seen Martin Committees sell on eBay for $600.00

I just can not justify a parent spending more $$$ than that to rent a piece of junk horn, or to buy an inferior student trombone.

I have seen 6th and 7th graders play top of the line LA Benge trombones and horns like this with no problem. Many of these superior made trombones are not that difficult to play, as long as the bore sizes are not too large. (or the horn has a F wrap, etc.)

With great used pro and very nice intermediate level horns for sale on eBay for under six hundred bucks, in my opinion based upon 33 years in this activity, a beginners trombone is a waste of money, unless it is a old beater horn like an Olds Ambassador for about $200.00 for a kid that does not take very good care of things.
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rockford
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely a King 605. We're not allowed to sell stuff in this part of the forum so I won't mention that I happen to have one for sale for only $175. plus shipping.
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CRoberts8
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rockford wrote:
Definitely a King 605. We're not allowed to sell stuff in this part of the forum so I won't mention that I happen to have one for sale for only $175. plus shipping.


Then I definitely don't have a Holton Collegiate trombone for sale for $65
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mcahynuacrkd
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Horns like this are more like what I am talking about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BLESSING-SUPER-ARTIST-TROMBONE-1949-VINTAGE-TROMBONE-/260369646256?pt=Brass_Instruments

This is a great little horn, some might define it as intermediate, for an inexpensive $325.00 buy it now price. This trombone in my opinion would be easy for a beginner to play, and would last a student thru college and beyond. Whoever gets this should invest in a nice used case for about fifty bucks. For under $400.00 , unless the kid become some trombone playing superstar, this horn if they take good care of it could very well last the kid for life.

I am very solid on Conn and King and Getzen and Kanstul and Olds btw, but some vintages of Conn and King are not so great.
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Last edited by mcahynuacrkd on Wed Aug 25, 2010 5:52 am; edited 6 times in total
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trombones are trickier than trumpets in some ways. The main thing is that it's far easier for damage the slide or get it misaligned than the valves on a trumpet. On the other hand, that's really the only thing that can go wrong with it.

I like some of the older model horns better. Student model Olds, King, and Conn from the 60's. Unfortunately, finding one that isn't beat to heck is the trick. Fortunately, as others have mentioned, better intermediate and professional level horns are quite available at nice prices. They also will be the ones have hopefully been taken care of.

I've got an old Olds Ambassador. Plays nice. I've also got an Olds Recording trombone (bought on a great deal from a friend - yes, I'd love to have the trumpet version, naturally). It's sounds and plays great but the slide is a bit high maintenance. It's one of those weird fluted slides (lots of flat sides). The idea is interesting, but in practice, I have doubts.

My students get student trombones, of course. So I've seen plenty. I've never seen a Kanstul, but I'd bet they are nice. I like the Getzens as well.

Much depends on the budget.
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Don Herman rev2
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My son has had a Yamaha Allegro for several years and likes it. As does his teacher, an excellent musician herself.
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chapahi
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 11:21 pm    Post subject: Re: What student model trombone would you get? Reply with quote

Tom K. wrote:
If you were getting a used student model trombone,


I DID get a Conn Coprion 18H and was quite pleased.
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cwerickson
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recently purchased a new Blessing student trumpet for a friend of mine, and was *super* impressed by the way it played, the fit and finish, and the price. If the trombone is anything like the trumpet, I would certainly take a good look at that one before you made any decisions.

Tina
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Capt.Kirk
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up a near perfect Trombone Olds for $32...... Ifnot for the last 1-2 inch of the stocking having some chipped plating it would be a perfect used trombone. Not a dent or ding on it except the very bottom side of the bell. The counter balance weight came off in shipping and was bouncing around the case! I am sure I can massage them out because they are so shallow and round not deep and sharp.

It is going to cost me $85 to get ANderson to buff it and replate it. THen what ever it cost to have them re-installed.

So $32+$85 an what ever it cost to get my Tech to reinstall them. I could not touch a New Trombone as good as an Olds Ambasador for 5th grader for that money? I am pretty sure a Cheap Barrington Trombone starts at $299 and that is about as Cheap as I would ever do and that is only based on their Trumpet. I am on a tight budget and could have afforded more but I was willing to take a risk at that price point. THeir are a lot of great older Holtons,Bueascher's,Martins and the like for under $200.....I have seen Open F Wrap Olds and nicer intermediate Yamaha's and nice Pro-level Jupiters that are older as in 10-15 years old but in mint shape go for well under $600 usually in the $300 range and that is a steal.

If you can try to get shots of the stocking because ideally you want close to zero drag. Like trumpet valves you want to see little to no wear and uniform wear if their is any. You o not want dents and dings in the hand slide outer or inner tubes but the bell can be dented and that portion and it is not a big deal. A proper slide when lubed and sprayed with water should want to fall out under gravities pull. Most trombone players only use something with oil in it to get water to bead on the slide so they use pledge,cold cream,slide oil, slide crease and all kinds of other odd stuff.....

If yours does not have a MP measure the receiver if it is .5 inch or smaller it is small shank larger then that is large shank. Trust me you will need to know when you go to buy a MP. Bore is not that big a deal for the beginner neither is interchangeable leadpipes.

I would imagine that Kanstuls tenor models especially the lower priced models are based on the Olds Ambassador Trombone which was based on previous small bore professional models. This is why they play so well and easy when in good shape. Keep in mind it was based on Pro models designed for Jazz and recording artists which also limits it a bit. If you look at some of the smaller bore pro trumpets from the 1920 and 1930's some of them would not be a perfect fit today for a modern professional but would be more then up to the job of student duty! As you get closer to todays designs some old trumpets are still perfect today like the large bore Martins, the Vega Power Bore, THe Conn 22 Symphony, The large bore Holton Lewyln(sp) etc....... THe .500 small bore horns from Martin,Buescher,Holton,Olds etc......are perfect for student work....depending on which one you ended up with it would more then likely work all the way through H.S. especially if you got one with the F wrap although those are normal.567 or larger....They would work insanely great in small club settings and in Mic situations and Jazz band etc......It would not be unless they where really serious and wanted to either work professional or at the college level that they would simply have to have more horn!

I have few friends that are professional trombone players and I asked them to make me smart and they tried to in a hurry......I got a lot of History lessons.....LOL My sons Band Teacher is also a Trombone player as his primary instrument.....So I am on the hunt for a decently priced Conn 88H on the off chance my son will like to really put the pedal to the metal!!LOL So if you can get a Conn 88H for $600 or less do it and fix what needs fixing according to him a Conn 88H will get a kid through H.S. and College and is about as good as it gets in used vintage Trombones.

The reason I went with Getzen was because they are more common on the used market then Kanstul just so you know.... The West Coast see's a lot of Kanstuls stuff but in Michigan we see next to nothing of his just the occasional product. IF I go into a Pawn SHop though they are loaded with Bach,Conn,Bundy,Getzen and Jupiter is increasing almost never run into a Kanstul in a Pawn SHop or on Craigs List where I live. If buying new I think Kanstul or Getzen either would be a great 1st choice!
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JonathanM
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I picked up a nice little Bach starter horn (no model name on it) at a pawn shop for the staggering sum of $125 (that was tax included). The slide action is excellent; the tone is sufficient for a starter. I took the best mouthpiece they had of several Bach 12's; they had no problem with this either.

Hard to go wrong with Bach as a starter horn. The great things about trombones is they do NOT seem to hold value like trumpets, in mho. Seems to me at pawn shops there are often two or three trombones, I could have chosen a nice starter Yamaha (the 3-- series) for about the same; but the slide needed work. I wanted cheap to get started and see if I liked it, and the Bach was fine.

I've played a little King that got a very decent tone, probably better than my little Bach. I picked up very nice Bach Mercedes II that gets a nice tone, too.
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bagmangood
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of months back, I picked up an olds ambassador trombone on ebay less than < $60 including shipping. Its dented, and i should really get those dents taken out (probably bringing my grand total to around $100).
Watch ebay for vintage trombones, some of them go for pretty cheap...
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F.E. Olds Nut
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The copper bell Blessing Artists with F attachment can be found for reasonable prices.
The King 606 models are also pretty decent.
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Craig Swartz
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seriously, if you know how to check the slide for alignment and wear (inner and outer), it hasn't been used to pound nails or to fend off Orcs and has a serviceable case, I would go to a pawn shop and pick up anything Yamaha, Bach, Conn, Getzen, Olds, whatever, for $50. No kidding. So long as it is taken care of, you'll be able to get your $50 back and step up to a better one once things are coming along (or not).

IME, trombone is probably the most often "quit instrument" in the band world. It's usually too big for most 10 year olds to manipulate (yeah, like reaching beyond 5th position is reality for most of them), is not easy to produce a tone from since there is little resistance (if you compare to any valved brass instrument), and unless someone competent can demonstrate it to the student on a very regular basis, they will not soon fall in love with the tone they usually produce. Add to that a lack of knowledge of the rudinents of slide maintenance and it can be a miserable experience. Go the pawn shop route first. Or check out the local Craigslist and do some negotiating.

(BTW- when you check the outer slide, be aware that any tiny nick, no matter how insignificant it may appear, will brag against the stocking and need to be removed, It's about the same as a tiny scratch in a valve casing.)
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Craig Swartz wrote:
Seriously, if you know how to check the slide for alignment and wear (inner and outer), it hasn't been used to pound nails or to fend off Orcs and has a serviceable case, I would go to a pawn shop and pick up anything Yamaha, Bach, Conn, Getzen, Olds, whatever, for $50. No kidding. So long as it is taken care of, you'll be able to get your $50 back and step up to a better one once things are coming along (or not).

IME, trombone is probably the most often "quit instrument" in the band world. It's usually too big for most 10 year olds to manipulate (yeah, like reaching beyond 5th position is reality for most of them), is not easy to produce a tone from since there is little resistance (if you compare to any valved brass instrument), and unless someone competent can demonstrate it to the student on a very regular basis, they will not soon fall in love with the tone they usually produce. Add to that a lack of knowledge of the rudinents of slide maintenance and it can be a miserable experience. Go the pawn shop route first. Or check out the local Craigslist and do some negotiating.

(BTW- when you check the outer slide, be aware that any tiny nick, no matter how insignificant it may appear, will brag against the stocking and need to be removed, It's about the same as a tiny scratch in a valve casing.)

Excellent ideas. Finding a cheap student trombone is not too hard. There's not a ton of difference between the Conn, King, Bach, Yamaha, and Getzen flavors - they're all fine for what they are. Also, fine at the price you should get them for.

I almost jumped on this beauty this morning, but I passed:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190436393715

Looks like a vintage 1920's trombone in nice condition. It could have been a local pickup for me. I decided I didn't need another trombone in the basement, and the fluted slides were a turn-off. I've got a Olds Recording trombone that sounds great, but I'm not a fan of the fluted slides. Still, deal like this aren't hard to find at the pawn shop, craigslist, or Ebay or garage sale. Sometimes folks on Ebay do overvalue their instruments. They figured they paid a big whopping amount for that student model and it's still worth around $500 - even though there's a ton of them on the market and a used vintage pro-model can be had for even less than that. Sometimes it's possible to talk sense into people, sometimes not.

I always get a kick out of my little 4th graders playing trombone. There's 2nd position, 3rd position, 4th position, 5th position, 5 1/4 position, and 5 1/2 position. Still, some of the good students still manage to play a low C (6th position) in tune - somehow. Not most, but a few. I've had a few beginners that rock despite being exceptionally pint-sized. There's not many things more awesome than when a tiny little 4th grade girl picks up trombone that's a big as she is a cranks out this big, full sound that puts my middle school students to shame (since they neither practice, nor blow). Doesn't happen often, but it makes my day - or maybe even my week.
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