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NY Bach?? cimbasso on eBay



 
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cjl
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:35 pm    Post subject: NY Bach?? cimbasso on eBay Reply with quote

Here is an interesting item ... is it or isn't it?

NY Bach Cimbasso

Take a close look at the engraving ... also read the questions section as Rob Stewart has weighed in.

-- Joe
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Crazy Finn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strange beast. If I had a million dollars...
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cheiden
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got introduced to the Cimbasso at brass camp a few years back. It was amusing to a point but the player was far from a master and it was kinda' hard to listen to after a while and the coaches routinely told him to put it away.
I heard they were designed for opera productions where orchestra space was limited.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbasso
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My orchestra has one.
-It's the right thing to use for *some* Verdi operas (for instance).
-It's basically a valved contra-bass trombone.
-It's usually played by tuba players.
-They are still being made (mind you, not by V.Bach).

MvW.

*Edited after reading royjohn's post.


Last edited by Maarten van Weverwijk on Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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royjohn
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 6:40 pm    Post subject: NY Bach?? Cimbasso on ebay Reply with quote

Hi Maarten,

While you are right about the other things you state about the cimbasso, I don't think it is the authentic instrument for any Verdi operas but the last three. For the others an ophicleide or even a serpent [I think or maybe it is an ophicleide with holes rather than keys] for the earliest operas, would be more authentic and correct. There are copies of a dissertation about this topic floating around the Internet, I believe the author's name is Gourlay, and this is the conclusion he came to after a lot of research.

The original cimbasso was basically a valved bass trombone in F with a particular bore and modern cimbassos are like modern cornets, not exactly like the original. As with a lot of other instruments, we have a ways to go before we are authentic in our late 18th and 19th century orchestral practice and get to hear this music as it was conceived by the composers.

As is stated in the wiki article on cimbasso Bellini specified a cimbasso in an opera before 1850, but he wasn't really referring to the bass trombone thing we're talking about here.

I suppose most trumpeters aren't very interested in this stuff and would be more interested in what picc to get. The modern cimbasso is, while not authentic for Verdi, an interesting instrument and I have seen videos of Jazz solos played on one.
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Maarten van Weverwijk
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Royjohn,

Thanks for correcting me on that one!
Very interesting information indeed.
Edit made in my previous post.

Kindest regards,
Maarten.
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gringoloco
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I expect Bach built it on special order or as an experiment like his early rotor trumpets. As it only has 4 valves and no triggers (as modern examples generally have at least 5 valves and 1 trigger) I imagine it is very difficult to play well. The valves sticking out the right look pretty uncomfortable too.
Looks good for a collector.
A modern orchestral low brass player is probably more likely to be able to get away with playing this on Verdi and Bellini and such than bringing an ophicleide to work. In the world of "semi-historically informed performance" this seems like a good option. Plus, when they're played well they sound pretty damn cool.
Rob
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Wrms
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Whoever made it, I don't think I'd argue with Robb Stewart about the likely history of the horn. As far as I know he is THE expert on historic brass instruments.

Also, I'm sure the player mentioned as the previous owner is John Richards.
He and I were chatting about cornets and he mentioned his old teacher, Herb Clarke, I about fell off my chair. John's a wonderful guy, even for a tuba player. I also saw him in lederhosen once, what a sight .javascript:emoticon('')

Mark
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