Schilke E3L and ML bell

monke · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 1:07 am Post subject:

Hi,

I bought a ML bell (the one from the E3L-4) for my E3L. Yesterday I had the first rehearsal with my ensemble where I playes this combination. From the first note on I noticed I is something wrong. I was alsways to high and the intonation was very bad.
So I compared the to bells and find out that the ML bell is shorter than the original bell from the E3L.
Is that normal? Has anyone of you experience with that?

Olaf

bgwbold · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 2:07 am Post subject:

The wrap of the two horns is different. I would expect the bell to probably be shorter on the E3L4 bell than the E3L. Can you eyeball them with a piece of string or something? I have a horn that is similar to the E3L and the bell pretty much looks like a Bb bell to the naked eye.

Mike

GordonH · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 3:15 am Post subject:

Hello
Did you send it back to Schilke to get the bell fitted?

If its any help I can measure the length of my D and Eb bells on my e3l-4 for you to compare with yours.

The bells may be shorter than the e3l as there is more lengthtubing through the valve block,

Gordon

romey1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Jun 2003 Posts: 797

For most people, that bell is way too big for the E3L. Pitch problems, and unfocused sound are dead giveaways.

romey

monke · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:11 am Post subject:

That's not my problem. The sound is great. Only the intonation is to high, because the bell is to short.

Olaf

drunkiq · Posted: Fri Aug 29, 2003 8:46 am Post subject:

many orchestra players have done to an Eb horn and then add a C trumpet bell (commonly a Bach 229 or 239). This is usually done in light of many directors preference for the timbre of a C trumpet in the ensemble. This gives the player the ability to have the desired sound while still maintaining the ability to be able to play in, or transpose more easily from keys which pose odd/awkward fingerings on C or Bb trumpet. Wynton Marsalis had this done to his Schilke E3L adding a Bach 229 bell. He played the Haydn using this horn on "The London Concert" album, and it can be seen on the CD cover.

i would still give phill a email at schlke to see what he says aobut it - Phil@schilkemusic.com

keep in mind that the schilke bells are not realy differnt sizes - just different tapers - i have a medium and a large one - both totally different - the medium is to bright for most work then jazz and the large has a big fat sound then blends with anything - and yes they are both the "beryllium bronze" bells...

-marc

GordonH · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 4:34 am Post subject:

The bell is too short because it was not designed for the trumpet you have.
It would need to be modified.

Gordon
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

monke · Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2003 11:14 am Post subject:

Can you tell me in which way it has to be modified?

Olaf

GordonH · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 12:35 am Post subject:

I think it would need lengthened?

Please come back to this thread in about 12 hours.
I will measure the bells for my e3l-4 from the bell rim along the surface to the bit where they join onto the valve block.

You can then compare your D bell to mine which should give you an idea of which way it needs to go.
I would imagine that lengthening is not an option.
As someone in this thread said, mpst people go the bach bell route for the e3l if they need a bigger sound.
The big Shilke bell is almost of cornet proportions andnot that easy to play on if the truth be told, but it makes a nice sound.

Gordon

drunkiq · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 5:38 am Post subject:

it is a tunable bell model right... the tube that allow you so tune it cold be made longer to accomplish ths.. please email phil@schilkemusic.com - I am sure he can work a something out with out with you even if makin a custompart - heck that is all they do....

the other option is to call the guy on this website that may offere assistance:

http://aminortuneup.com - Messes with these conversions all the time...

or better yet call or email ron pic (use to do alll schilke custom work and they still refer everyone to him) - currently works with lasky -

For more information scott@laskey.com (630) 889-2188 Fax (630) 889-2190

270 N. Eisenhower Lane, Suite 8, Lombard, IL 60148

onf os the guys should be able to hook you up with a way to make it wor right..

-marc

GordonH · Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2003 6:29 am Post subject:

OK
Here are the measurements of the bells for my E3L-4

Eb Bell - 62 cm
D Bell - 67 cm

This was measured around the outside surface of the tubing starting at the bell rim.
Its as accurate a measurement as I could get with a tailors tape measure.

How does your D bell compare to 67 cm?
If your D bell is longer than mine then your Eb bell is too short and will need extended.

It could be that there is no difference and they get the extra length from the leadpipe end, or in fact there is no difference at all between the bells for the 3 and 4 valve version.

Gordon

[ This Message was edited by: GordonH on 2003-08-31 09:30 ]

monke · Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2003 10:51 am Post subject:

Thanks for your measures.

My ML-bell is 62 cm, too. But my bell frome the E3L is 63 cm. And the bell is smaller. So I think I got the false bell from Schilke, because I have ordered a ML bell for the E3L. Will see what Schilke says.

Thanks for your help.

Olaf

GordonH · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 11:35 am Post subject:

OK
I think it may just be the wrong bell.
I am surprised they supplied it because they wouldnt let me have one without sending the entire instrument back to them.

Good luck.

Gordon
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

drunkiq · Posted: Wed Sep 03, 2003 12:16 pm Post subject:

Olaf,

just an fyi - anytime you have a new tunable bell put on your horn they make you send it back it, to make it fit (slide perfectly).... I am thinking about mounting up my old medium bell on my Bb but they said i had to mail the whole horn in for this reason, escapically since they did not do the tunable bell conversion- other wise the top slide with the top screw may be in the wrong spot and it won't align correctly....

Another person i know just wanted a "beryllium bronze" bell in the same size he already had - they told him he had to send in the whole horn to make sure it lined up perfectly....

I can't belive you are having to go throught this either.. sure they will get it back to you pretty qucik.... sorry for your misforturne and am I sure everthing will turn out fine....

let us know how everyting turns out...

-marc

[ This Message was edited by: drunkiq on 2003-09-03 15:17 ]