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MFHorn13 Veteran Member
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 Posts: 124
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:02 pm Post subject: Bach 5D |
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Does anyone have any experience with a Bach 5D? For years, I played a 7D, and used it for almost everything. Then, I later switched to a regular Bach 5C, 5C Megatone and a Schilke 14A4A. My curiousity is about the "blend" of the old 7D and the 5C varieties that I've come accustomed to. Does a 5D exist? _________________ 2006 Holton ST308 MF Horn
Early 2000's Holton ST307S MF Horn
1974 Holton ST304 MF Horn
1952 Martin Committee
1973 Holton ST200
1956 Conn Connstellation 38B
1990's Holton MF ST550
Late 1970's Holton ST304 MF Horn |
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Adam V Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 1765 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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Bach doesn't make a 5D, but Jim New at Kanstul can definitely blend a 5C rim with a 7D cup if that's what you're after. If you ask him to match it to a B76 backbore and a Bach blank it should work great based on what you've said. _________________ 1970 Bach 37 Strad
Yamaha 635 flugel
Marcinkiewicz E3/3C |
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Blue Trane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 669 Location: USA
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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Try a Curry 5DE. It might be a little shallower than what you're looking for but it's not too expensive and probably worth a try. |
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rooster7 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 339 Location: Oroville,California
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Its funny you mentioned the Bach 5D today. I was just "browsing" http://abel.hive.no/trumpet/playerhorn/ , and I noted that Gerard Schwarz plays a Bach 5C for regular trumpet and a 5D for piccolo trumpet. I recently purchased a Schilke B1 trumpet (that I absolutely love).I found I preferred a Bach 5C megatone with the B1. One of these days, I hope to play the piccolo trumpet and was considering the Bach 5D or 5E. I hope you get alot of feedback on your forum question, as I'm interested in the Bach 5D,too.
Mark |
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loweredsixth Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 24 Feb 2005 Posts: 1844 Location: Fresno, California, USA, North America, Earth, Solar System, Orion Arm, Milky Way Galaxy, Universe
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Posted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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The Curry mouthpieces are the way to go. You'll get a wide assortment of cup shapes with the Bach rim you're used to. The fact that they are cheap is icing on the cake! _________________ The name I go by in the real world is Joe Lewis |
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rooster7 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 339 Location: Oroville,California
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I have a burning question about the Bach 5D and Curry mouthpieces. Since this forum question began, I've been looking at various trumpet mouthpiece comparison charts. I don't think (of the ones I found on the internet) are alike. What I have found, and believe is correct, is that the Bach 5C is 16.26 mm or .640 inches and a medium cup. It appears that a similar Curry mouthpiece would be a Curry 8.5C. Am I right? I would also go with a Curry 8.5Z for a piccolo trumpet mouthpiece that might be similar to the Bach 5D. Since Bach doesn't make a 5D, I can't find any specs.
Mark |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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rooster7 wrote: | I have a burning question about the Bach 5D and Curry mouthpieces. Since this forum question began, I've been looking at various trumpet mouthpiece comparison charts. I don't think (of the ones I found on the internet) are alike. What I have found, and believe is correct, is that the Bach 5C is 16.26 mm or .640 inches and a medium cup. It appears that a similar Curry mouthpiece would be a Curry 8.5C. Am I right? I would also go with a Curry 8.5Z for a piccolo trumpet mouthpiece that might be similar to the Bach 5D. Since Bach doesn't make a 5D, I can't find any specs.
Mark |
Hi Mark
Bach mouthpieces are generally larger than specified. A Curry 5C would therefore be the equivalent of a Bach 5C.
All the best
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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BobD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1251 Location: Boston MA
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know. I just tried a Curry 5C and it felt bigger and deeper than my Bach 5C. _________________ Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C |
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Blue Trane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 669 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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Was it a Curry 5C or 5C. ? There is a difference. |
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rooster7 Veteran Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2002 Posts: 339 Location: Oroville,California
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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I hope I'm not deviating from MFHORN13's forum question, but can anybody suggest a internet site that has a credible mouthpiece comparison chart? Just one example-I noted one chart says that a the Yamaha equivelent of a Bach 5C is a Yamaha 9C4. The Yamaha chart says it should be a 14C4. I have to agree with Yamaha because I have a inside/outside micrometer and it is reading .640 inches for both the Bach 5C and Yamaha 14C4. I don't have a 9C4 to measure, but it must be alot smaller.
Mark |
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BobD Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 1251 Location: Boston MA
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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Blue Trane,
It is a 5C, no dot. _________________ Adams/ACB collaborative
Yamaha Shew Jazz and Bach 7C |
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Blue Trane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 669 Location: USA
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Posted: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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The no dot Currys are modeled after the Mt Vernon Bach mouthpieces. The newer ones with a dot more closely resemble the modern Bach sizes. Generally speaking the Mt Vernons are larger inner diameter wise than the modern versions. |
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lburrows Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1096 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:39 am Post subject: |
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I may be wrong, but I have a feeling that it is only the 3C which is available as a 3C and 3C., simply because the Curry mouthpieces are based on the Bach mount vernon mouthpieces, and the Mount Vernon 3C was larger than a modern 3C, more like a modern Bach 1 1/2C.
One thing to bear in mind, is that although I have never heard this officially, I understand that post-strike Bach re-tooled their mouthpiece production, using the set of cherrys that Vincent Bach have kept aside as a perfect example of each model, to create the new tooling. If I understand correctly, this would mean that the post strike Bach mouthpieces are pretty much sized as the specifications suggest.
I understand that the first CNC produced Bach mouthpieces were based on what had become a typical size for each model, as owing to wearing of the tooling, the mouthpieces gradually became larger than specified until the tooling was changed, with larger than specified becoming the norm.
I find a new Bach 3C to be considerably smaller than my 2005 Bach 3C. I haven't tried a Curry 3C., but have heard that they still feel larger than a Bach 3C. I suppose that it depends on what Bach 3C you are comparing them to. I believe that the Curry 3C. is supposed to reflect the size of a pre-strike 3C, such as my 2005, rather than the very latest ones.
I have tried several Curry cornet mouthpieces in the 5 size, 5VC, 5DC and 5TC, simply because the person who was kind enough to lend them to me, played this size.
I personally didn't feel that they were that different in size to my 2005 Bach 3C, but I have never played a Curry 3C. or a Bach 5C, so really can't say.
Possibly the Curry 7C may have a cup diameter more like that of a post-strike Bach 5C, but it will have a Bach 7C rim profile rather than a Bach 5C, hence my suggestion of the Curry 5C as being a Bach 5C equivalent.
All the best
Lou _________________ I am now Lou Finch
I am a Principal Cornet and Big Band Trumpeter.
Bach 180ML 37/25 Trumpet - Bach 3C
Bach 184ML Cornet - Kanstul custom Bach 3C
Besson 927 Sovereign Cornet - Bach 5A
B&H Imperial Cornet - Bach 5A
Bach 183 Flugel - Bach 3CFL |
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Ed Kennedy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 3187
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:52 am Post subject: 5D? |
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Blue Trane wrote: | Try a Curry 5DE. It might be a little shallower than what you're looking for but it's not too expensive and probably worth a try. |
Also look at the 5M or 5* (for commercial work). The 60M would also be a good possibility.
I think the dot thing in Curry pieces applied only to the 3 rim.
(Mark, are you out there Dude? Correct me if I am wrong.) |
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Blue Trane Heavyweight Member
Joined: 20 Dec 2009 Posts: 669 Location: USA
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: 5D? |
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Ed Kennedy wrote: | I think the dot thing in Curry pieces applied only to the 3 rim. |
My bad. I'm likely mistaken. I've been checking out Curry 3Cs and thought the dot thing applied to other sizes as well. |
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ablazek Regular Member
Joined: 20 Oct 2016 Posts: 13
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Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know if Kanstul would still be able to blend a 5 rim to a 7D cup like was mentioned in this thread a few years ago? If not them, who else would be a good bet for this kind of work?
Also, would a 5B rim work just as well as a 5C rim, or would the bites/alpha angles be significantly different? |
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Louise Finch Heavyweight Member
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Joined: 10 Aug 2012 Posts: 5467 Location: Suffolk, England
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Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:30 am Post subject: |
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ablazek wrote: | Does anyone know if Kanstul would still be able to blend a 5 rim to a 7D cup like was mentioned in this thread a few years ago?
Hi ablazek
I'm not sure regarding the current situation with custom mouthpiece work at Kanstul.
If not them, who else would be a good bet for this kind of work?
I used Jim New when he was a Kanstul, and have continued to use him for mouthpiece work now that he has his own James R New mouthpiece business:
http://james-r-new.com
He would be my suggestion.
Also, would a 5B rim work just as well as a 5C rim, or would the bites/alpha angles be significantly different?
I wouldn't know for certain without mapping both a 5C and 5B rim over a 7D cup on the Kanstul mouthpiece comparator and seeing how the alpha angle and top of the cup of the 5C and 5B meet the 7D cup.
With the difference in Bach rims, it is quite possible that the 5B could have a lower alpha angle than the 5C, as from memory, I believe that the 3B has a 1 degree higher alpha angle than the 3C.
Actually come to think of this, I'll check this.
i.e. http://users.actrix.co.nz/mcamilleri/MpAlpha.htm
Yes, I'm right about the 3B and 3C, but according to the above link the 5C does have a 2 degree higher alpha angle. You however also need to consider the slope into the top of the cup after the alpha angle (whatever this is called). Come to think of it, I may as well bring up the Kanstul comparator, rather than guess:
http://www.kanstul.net/MPcompare/MouthpieceComparator.html
To me, it looks possibly like the 5B may be an easier match, but I had a job to line up the two images, as for some reason, when the top of the backbores are lined up, the 7D cup is lined up to the right of the 5B cup.
Jim New in my opinion will be the best person to advise you, and if he is able to offer the same services as he did at Kanstul, he should be able to provide you with a scan of what the resultant blended mouthpiece will look like. He definitely did this for me when I put my 3C rim on a 3D cup.
Take Care
Lou
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_________________ Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs |
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