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Calicchio 1s/2 Valve Questions


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pfeifela
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
Posts: 1205
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back from my trip to the 'Cink/Calicchio shop in Canby yesterday. I printed out the valve issues posted byChadwick and 2lip. All three of us suffered from loud, clunky and clanky sounding and feeling valves. In addition, Chadwick has an issue with one valve sticking.

Regarding the loudness and clankiness: John Duda stated that while they are at times loud and clanky to some (he noted that mine were quite loud and clanky), he stated he also gets calls from others (pros) that actually ask for more of a clanky rebound than they currently have!!!. They just prefer the feel of the "ker-chunk" on the upstroke. This considered, I think what we have is as much a personal preference issue as a build quality issue.

John's corrections: First, he disassembled my valves and found that the brass spring seat was installed upside down in each valve. Since I traded for the horn I cannot discern whether this occurred during the build or from an error made by the previous owner. John says "no way" did it leave the factory that way. Flipping those over provide some improvement.........you might check 'em.

Second: The black pads have two different sides to them. It is subtle but can be seen if you look closely. One side is shiny, the other is a matte surface. Matte surface up helps.......don't ask me why.

Third: Different springs have been used at different times. My horn was built in 2010 with 75XX serial number and received a heftier spring than some other horns built at other times. He identified them as "among our heavier ones" at first glance. He pulled them and replaced them with a lighter spring. It made a HUGE difference on my horn. The valves were far less clunky and were significantly quieter. They have a little different feel, a softer feel, but I like it better and consider the "clunky factor" and noise problem resolved for my horn. Please also note: While I am now satisfied, my Calicchio valves are still a distant second to the valves on my Getzen Genesis, and no amount of tweaking is ever going to turn them into a Getzen valve block.

Finally: If the above easy steps don't provide adequate correction the advice provided Larry Woods earlier in the thread would be the next step. To reiterate,

"I did my own valve alignment on a Calicchio using rubber type "felts". After the valves were aligned, the click clank got worse. After taking many measurements, numerous cleanings, and experimentation, I determined the source of the click was the piston contacting the brass valve guide thousands of an inch before the "felt" stopped the valve travel on the up stroke.

By lightly filing the bottom of the brass valve guides, the problem was completely resolved. That horn has smooth, reliable, and quiet valve action now."


John said that you can touch them on a fine grinder easier than filing them. Filing can leave burs that may or may not cause their own set of problems. Nonetheless it is a viable fix.

If none of the relatively easy fixes listed above works, John suggests it is time to send the horn in. He asks that the problem or dislike be detailed in writing and put int he case so there remains no ambiguity about the goal or objective of the servicing.

Regarding Chadwick's sticky valve: John thought this was a case better resolved by sending in the horn than by internet chatting. I did let him know I would like to post his suggestions and comments regarding the other aforementioned valve problems and he was fine with that.......

Finally, both John and Zack (I did some MP stuff also while I was there) were fine gentlemen who provided a down home kind of customer service that It was entirely my pleasure to spend some time with them and I will be looking forward to my next trip out.

Oh yeah, played a few nice horns along the way as well. Next time out I'm taking a credit card and keeping one of those "Cink horns.
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Chadwick
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Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 55
Location: SF Bay Area

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thank you very much for the detailed post!

I'll try all those out. His advice to send the horn back to John to figure out is probably the best option, since I don't want to tinker around with a valve system like that. I'll give him a call next week to set up something in the future, and to be clear on the issue. It will probably be in the middle of march when I get some time to part with it, but it will be a welcomed change; the guys at Marcinkiewicz have new ideas and experience with respect to this valve issue.

Thank you again!

CMH
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ldwoods
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Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 1634
Location: Chula Vista, CA

PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Pfeifer pasted in my previous post. I should probably elaborate on what I posted.

Filing the valve guide must be done with extreme caution. Obviously one does not use just any old file laying around. The file must be very fine, not coarse. After filing, you should use a very small, very fine jeweler's file to ensure there are no burrs on the bottom edges.

Another option instead of filing, is to use extremely fine sand paper. Lay the sheet of sand paper on a very flat surface. Place the valve guide on the sand paper, bottom side down. With your finger on the top of the valve guide, move the valve guide around in circles trying your best to keep even pressure on the valve guide. Again, check and clean up with a very fine jeweler's file.

One more thing:
If doing this on Calicchio valve guides, be careful to NOT take too much material away. The anti-rotation pin security could be compromised if too much base metal is removed.
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LDWoods
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