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Capt.Kirk
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 Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:14 pm Post subject: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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http://www.carolbrass.com/product_post.php?i=38
It looks like all the trumpet except the valve assembly and braces and water keys are made from Red brass which is close to if not the same as bronze depending on the exact alloy. How cool is that a horn that is functionally all bronze probably less then $2000.......Lets so Kanstul,Getzen,Blessing,Bach compete with that!!!
It is almost funy because most of what I said the Domestic OEM's should do with regard to added value, better materials, new marketing profiles, better price points etc........is being done instead by a company in Taiwan.
The kicker is this company has been in business 25 years so it is not some up start with super young staff. Yet they are embracing modern concepts of marketing. Flexible manufacture, CNC heavy parts production, Cad parts design, and the whole ball of wax! Gota love it just wish the domestic would listen more!
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Flattergrub
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 6:58 pm Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | http://www.carolbrass.com/product_post.php?i=38
It looks like all the trumpet except the valve assembly and braces and water keys are made from Red brass which is close to if not the same as bronze depending on the exact alloy. How cool is that a horn that is functionally all bronze probably less then $2000.......Lets so Kanstul,Getzen,Blessing,Bach compete with that!!!
I'm sure Kanstul, Getzen, Blessing and Bach are just shakin in their boots. LMAO
It is almost funy because most of what I said the Domestic OEM's should do with regard to added value, better materials, new marketing profiles, better price points etc........is being done instead by a company in Taiwan.
Hard to believe isn't it that all these domestic trumpet manufacturers with decades of experience in the trumpet business and who have forgotten more about trumpet manufacturing and marketing than you will ever know don't listen to some little guy that has become the laughing stock of this forum as well as TM, with absolutely no experiance in the trumpet industry and whose total sum knowledge regarding sales and marketing couldn't fill a thimble. Just hard to believe isn't it 
The kicker is this company has been in business 25 years so it is not some up start with super young staff. Yet they are embracing modern concepts of marketing. Flexible manufacture, CNC heavy parts production, Cad parts design, and the whole ball of wax!
The real kicker is that the company has been in business for 25 years and to date has practically zero penetration into the U.S. market. Wonder why ? Duh
Gota love it just wish the domestic would listen more!
Just can't figure out why a bunch of PROFESSIONAL trumpet manufacturers and PROFESSIONAL marketing folks with decades of experience never listen to ya huh. One of the true mysteries of the 21st century which of course you will never figure out. |
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Capt.Kirk
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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Greedy middle men and lack of modern marketing will be these Musical Instrument OEM's down fall...Look at all the business's Conn/Selmer/Bach has ran into the ground. Look how they prevent their companies from computing against the Bach Strad 180S37 market in this country! Look at all the companies no longer with us that used the same marketing model that is still in place today. Just because they have not filed BK yet does not mean itis not coming. Look at semi-conductor, textile goods, electronic manufacturing, automotive manufacturing by domestics.......Most of that stuff is not done outside of the USA and concessional shipped back here for assembly.
History is on my side. On top of that you can stop badgering me and hijacking the threads. If you want to contribute do so in a productive manner. I welcome disagreement so long s it is productive and not just badgering me! Differences in opinion spur change and innovation if productive!
Back on topicdo you not agree that the fact that Carol Brass has trumpets and Cornets made almost totally out of 90% copper is fantastic? You know it is going to come to market at a price point low enough to actually be affordable to a lot of people.
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oliver king
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nyctrumpeter
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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Right on, nothing new by Carol brass and I gotta say never heard of them and I would never buy their horn either. Not tested in the REAL trumpet market against all the other brass guys horns. This horn would never make it. Sorry, fail!
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Flattergrub
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: |
"Greedy middle men and lack of modern marketing will be these Musical Instrument OEM's down fall"
Ah yes - Another proclamation from someone with zero point zero PROFESSIONALmarketing experience. You have no credibility at all here John
"Look at all the business's Conn/Selmer/Bach has ran into the ground."
It wasn't two weeks ago that you told us about how Selmer Paris was run into the ground by Bach et. al. and you got put into your place then. Remember ?? Some people never learn.
Look how they prevent their companies from computing against the Bach Strad 180S37 market in this country!
Yup - good marketing strategy by PROFESSIONAL marketing people in PROFESSIONAL market depts. with decades of experience which is something you don't have and never will.
"Back on topic - do you not agree that the fact that Carol Brass has trumpets and Cornets made almost totally out of 90% copper is fantastic?"
Who cares ? Not me. If there was a huge market for them don't ya think people would have been selling them like hot cakes by now ?
"You know it is going to come to market at a price point low enough to actually be affordable to a lot of people."
Doesn't matter. Carol has little to no brand recognition here and that ain't gonna change until they put in huge amounts of ad and support money into the U.S. market. That ain't gonna happen. Do they have a U.S. distributor with deep pockets and dozens of sales reps ?? Nope. What is the resale value of Carol ? Like Zues I suspect. Zip and that ain't gonna change for the above reasons. And besides - Jupiter is here waaaaay ahead of them. |
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TrumpetAce
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Joined: 29 Apr 2006
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Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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I have not heard ONE bad review from someone who has actually played a Carol trumpet. The Captain makes some great points, and frankly - he makes great points on a daily basis. The most affordable pro trumpet from a USA manufacturer is the Kanstullation at close to 1500 bucks for the nickelplate/laquer version. Kanstul chicago - 1750. Kanstul Signature series all over 2000. Getzen? 1990. And Bach?? 2300. 2300 for a BACH? Schilke 2500. You better believe that I am going to try a Carol before I buy a brand new horn.
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Lboretrumpets
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Speaking of which... I dig the XO series. Really nice horns....I might have to get one before they end up not being underrated anymore. That said... I'll stick to what I know is good. It's good knowing if some drunk fool breaks my horn in a bar, I can get parts for it easily.
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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| nyctrumpeter wrote: | | Right on, nothing new by Carol brass and I gotta say never heard of them and I would never buy their horn either. Not tested in the REAL trumpet market against all the other brass guys horns. This horn would never make it. Sorry, fail! |
Personally, I don't knock horns I haven't played.
(except WalMart specials and "Band director approved" Ebay "deals")
No one's reinventing the wheel here. That said, there's no reason to trash a company and horns you know nothing about.
It makes you sound like the poster you're criticizing...
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gbdeamer
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 2:46 am Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | http://www.carolbrass.com/product_post.php?i=38
It looks like all the trumpet except the valve assembly and braces and water keys are made from Red brass which is close to if not the same as bronze depending on the exact alloy... |
Looks very pretty.
How does it play?
Oh right...you wouldn't know. You don't actually play any of the horns you rant about.
Nevermind... |
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mrsemman
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:03 am Post subject: |
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In my first class on trumpet repair, we learned about the alloys used in making the instruments. Each company uses the alloys to achieve a desired sound and function. I don't hear much criticism about Yamaha using more zinc in their alloy than, say Kanstul.
Don't be critical. We each try horns to make sure that they work for us; and who is to say, that what doesn't work for us, will not work for someone else? While we should be wary of marketing schemes, remember, that businesses that have existed for 25 years, did not stay in business due to marketing practices.
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mpo
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| Flattergrub wrote: |
The real kicker is that the company has been in business for 25 years and to date has practically zero penetration into the U.S. market. Wonder why ? Duh |
Check your sources. They have supplied parts to various manufacturers for years. |
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:30 am Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| Capt.Kirk wrote: | http://www.carolbrass.com/product_post.php?i=38
It looks like all the trumpet except the valve assembly and braces and water keys are made from Red brass which is close to if not the same as bronze depending on the exact alloy... |
If you read the script on the materials page, it says it is 90% copper. Don't think that is the same as red brass... but I'm not a professional or an expert trumpet maker.
http://www.carolbrass.com/product.php?i=28
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gbdeamer
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:54 am Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| supportlivejazz wrote: | | Capt.Kirk wrote: | http://www.carolbrass.com/product_post.php?i=38
It looks like all the trumpet except the valve assembly and braces and water keys are made from Red brass which is close to if not the same as bronze depending on the exact alloy... |
If you read the script on the materials page, it says it is 90% copper. Don't think that is the same as red brass... but I'm not a professional or an expert trumpet maker.
http://www.carolbrass.com/product.php?i=28 |
"Red brass" is correct. The amount of copper in the mix is what gives it the name.
From the site:
"Full 90% copper contained red brass professional special trumpet, you can get gorgeous and rich sound easily."
For what it's worth I think the horn LOOKS fantastic. The bracing on the 1st and 3rd slides LOOKS very unique, and it looks like they've done something with the Amado keys as well.
I'm a big fan of copper bells, so I would jump at the chance to play one of these for a while.
I find it hilarious that the OP spews his bs about a horn that he's never touched or even heard someone play. |
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supportlivejazz
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Ooops... well I guess it was I that should have read... more anyway. Thanks.
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Norman
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 9:49 am Post subject: |
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I heard a lot of talk about this company recently, but I have no reviews about any instrument. I'm looking forward to have a review from a reliable source.
I have already had a few good reviews of horns made in China. I think that their main challenge now will be to demonstrate reliability and consistency with a good quality level.
Honestly, being well experienced of what's happening in the industrial world, sooner or later they will make it. Maybe it will be Carol Brass, maybe some other company, but they will make it. And then it will be a lot of trouble for all the western manufacturers... Someone will regret so much trading their know how for a few years of savings on labour costs...
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Crazy Finn
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Norman wrote: | | I have already had a few good reviews of horns made in China. I think that their main challenge now will be to demonstrate reliability and consistency with a good quality level. |
CarolBrass instruments are made in Taiwan, not China - or to be more precise - mainland China (the People's republic of China). It's not the same thing.
Taiwan is a modern, industrial, developed state with a democracy and western-style capitalistic economy. Unlike they're neighbors across the sea in the mainland, they pay normal wages, and their workers have rights, sometimes unions, and get modern benefits.
Jupiter is also made in Taiwan.
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Flattergrub
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| Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Check out this New all Red Brass Model from Carol |
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| mpo wrote: | | Flattergrub wrote: |
The real kicker is that the company has been in business for 25 years and to date has practically zero penetration into the U.S. market. Wonder why ? Duh |
Check your sources. They have supplied parts to various manufacturers for years. |
I'm talking complete instruments (not parts). Have they been marketing complete instruments in the U.S. market for years and have any serious market penetration ? No. Why not ?
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veery715
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:43 am Post subject: |
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Here's a review:
Carol 388R Cornet
Build quality: Excellent. 4 3/4 " gold brass bell. Silver/gold plate. Stainless steel pistons. Two conventional water keys. Three different sized bottom caps (1 of each). Saddle on 1st slide, ring on 3rd. You have to see it to believe it - the horn is flat gorgeous.
Case: Black leatherette hard shell (wood?).
Mouthpiece: Carol classic cornet
Price: $1050 shipped (Austin Custom Brass)
Very even scale bottom to top (my range just past High C). Valve action fantastic, smooth, buttery. Sound w/ Stork 4A+ is very BBB, sweet, dark, but will light up in the upper register. Response (same MP) excellent. Slots nicely, but not too tightly, so bending notes no problem.
The horn will sit nicely as a jazz solo horn, dixieland, BBB, and for classical cornet rep.
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ChopsGone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Nothing against CarolBrass (I own one of their large-bell pocket trumpets, and it's certainly well-made and well worth the price), but an eBay listing I ran across earlier today makes me wonder about their plans. It's for a cornet with much red brass (CCR-9990-RSM), in fact the horn's basically made of red brass except for the valve block.
The kicker: $1700 buy-it-now. I know the seller; it's an honest outfit and I've had good dealings with them before. I don't think this is a jacked-up price.
OK, now look at the actual selling price for a made-in-USA Getzen 3850 with copper bell: $1676 in lacquer, big-box online seller's price.
It's hard to believe that the CarolBrass horn is going to turn out to be better than that Getzen, either as a player or as an investment. I'm not about to trade in my Wild Thing short model cornet for either, but if I were in the market for yet another cornet, I'd have to go with the Getzen. CarolBrass may be trying to invade the wrong market segment with this one.
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