too old for a conservatory?

Big Dave88 · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:29 am Post subject: too old for a conservatory?

im kindof freaking out, really.

im 22, wont be applying for another, year, and i feel ancient.
i feel as if its almost too late for me to get ahead, although i know that sounds ridiculous.

its just, my life is not what i thought it would be.

my grades from highschool are good, i got a 28 on the act and was top 10% of my class, but my college grades sucked because i hated the department, so i rejected it, and dropped out. took a year off to work on auditions, and developed over use syndrome, and thought my career was over(because i didnt know i could recover eventually). after a sever bout with depression, i saddled up again, and was going to go into philosophy. started school once more, got fairly depressed again because school/life seemed/was pointless to me, then got inspired, and picked up the horn, and dropped out of college AGAIN to practice/work.

that is a nut shell of a nut shell...let me tell ya.....

i feel as if im way too old, and my grades totally discount me anywhere i might audition.

what to do what to do...

i suppose if i was maurice ande incarnate, i would not be so worried...but as it would seem at this time, i am not...(yet?)

im just looking for some encouragement/advice here!
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Mike Lockman · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:13 am Post subject:

When I was in the conservatory (age 19) there was a gentleman who was 45 years old and a freshman. You are never too old. Do it!!
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RandyTX · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:42 am Post subject:

If 22 is "too old", a bunch of us must be dead and buried already.

When I was 22, I thought anyone over 30 was getting close to dying of old age too. Turns out I was wrong about that, as I was about so many other things.

You aren't "behind", you're just getting started. Worry less about your age, and more about getting the results you want out of your playing, and whatever career you settle on.

I hear a rumor there's a guy in his 80s that can still play the lacquer off any trumpet, and was even on TV a few times. I think his name is Doc-something-or-other.

slide911 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 27 May 2007 Posts: 889

Well, first, no I would say you are not too old. I'm not sure what you are struggling with is "am I too old", but "do I want a career in music."

You have mentioned bouts of depression, having to take time off because of overwork: you know there are easier careers than being a professional trumpet player.

The first thing I would do is be honest with yourself if you really want to get involved in a career that requires a lot of rejection, that is highly competitive, and there are ever shrinking jobs once you make it. What kind of life do you want? Do you want a life of teaching? If you are aiming to play classical, honestly access if you want spend a ton of money preparing yourself for a career when more and more orchestras are shutting down.

Usually the people who make it are the ones who CAN'T do anything else, and the road is not easy. Some who can do nothing else often don't make it either.

You are at a cross roads. Don't worry if you are too old, but if it is really something you want to do, knowing the downsides. What kind of life do you want in 10 years: a wife, a home, a family? None of that may be possible with a career in music, especially these days.
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Matthew Anklan · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:09 am Post subject:

I'm 28, have a wife, mortgage and a career. I'm back in school at a major conservatory after a hiatus taken for "career development." It's a bit of a drag being in class with people 10 years younger than I am because they don't share the same drive or focus, but I'm getting the degree wrapped up and it feels great to be so near the finish line. If you are going to do it, do it NOW. You're not going to get younger!!

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okeyjeff · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:55 am Post subject:

22, ancient? Please. You're a pup. If it's what you want to do, do it. I started on my master's degree this past year. I'm 37.

Get in with a great teacher. Take some courses at a community college this summer. Get a 4.0. This will show you're serious.
But do it, now. You're going to turn around tomorrow and be 35 and the college freshman will look like junior high kids.
You can do it. do it. do it, now!!!!
good luck!

Jeff Curtin

trombino · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:56 am Post subject:

I was 22 when I entered Manhattan School of Music. They didn't seem to care how old I was. By the time I got to MSM I was finally serious about getting the music education that I needed. As I think about it, i'm glad I started older than most students

kehaulani · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:03 am Post subject:

I don't think age is the question. I don't mean this judgmentally, but it would seem to me that you would benefit from professional psychological counseling. I read a certain darkness to what you have written and I would think that, until you come to grips with some of your underlying problems, you will continue to be plagued with doubts, as well as other problems that will affect your playing and professional preparation. In other words, worrying about your age is like looking at the finger pointing at the moon instead of looking at the moon itself.

Good luck.
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Jerry · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:15 am Post subject:

Age won't be a stumbling block to your success.

AverageJoe · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:18 am Post subject:

Do yourself a favor -- write out all of your perceived obstacles on a piece of paper and go over them one by one with a good friend or a counselor.

"Ninety-nine percent of failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses."

-- George Washington Carver, botanist

I know ALL ABOUT THIS...

Best,

Paul
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John Mohan · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:27 am Post subject:

You have some very good advice in the previous replies.

I'll only add an idea regarding your low grades:

I advise you to enroll in your local community college for a couple of years, take your core classes (and some music classes) and get straight A's. Not only will this bolster your GPA but it will show prospective schools and committees that you are serious and have made a "turn around" in your academic progress.
At your VERY young age (22), you've got plenty of time to do this. I'm nearly 50 and I'm persuing an Engineering degree with the hope of going to medical school eventually. It's been a long, arduous task, and I've had to take time off here and there to make money (I've got two kids in University and two in High School getting close to University age). But I will finish, and so will you if that's what you really want.

Sincerely,

John Mohan
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Ed Kennedy · Heavyweight Member Joined: 15 Jan 2005 Posts: 1040

Lots of guys enter school later. A whole generation of WWII vets, my father included (Eastman), did it. Go for it.

veery715 · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 7:41 am Post subject:

I am with the folks above in wanting to encourage you and also in believing that counseling is an excellent suggestion. The fact that you mention depression means you may have already sought access to some counseling, but sometimes you need to get the right fit with a counselor to make progress.

If you suffer from depression and or anxiety, keep in mind that there is help available for you if you seek it. Mood disorders and emotoinal issues are very common, but many people think that there is nothing wrong or that seeking help is a sign of weakness.

Let me tell you, as I know first hand, that help is there and it is not a sign of weakness to ask for it. Even the way you write in your post is a good indication that all is not right. Don't let pride get in your way. Call your local Mental Health Department today about getting an evaluation.
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Big Dave88 · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:00 pm Post subject:

great advice guys.
really, i mean it.

i wouldnt say i struggle with depression, i have just been in a real rough patch this last year - of course, they all say that, dont they!

but its funny you mention counseling, im going to visit my old dear friend and former youth pastor the week after easter.

and, its also funny, that it was mentioned that 'those who make it cant do anything else'. i find that i cant really do anything else. i cant bring myself to, or simply actually cant - heh, ive even tried to see if i could get a plumbing apprenticeship, but that fell through, and i thought about getting my cdl and being a trucker, but i have a terrible driving record!(from a professional driver standpoint) no one would hire me!

(and just as an aside, school/life seemed pointless because i was forced to settle into a lifestyle that i didnt agree with - ie get a job, be a drone, make money, move out of your parents house'. i just CANT do that. there has to be more to life than that. maybe ill grow out of it, but thats the romantic in me - i belive in all of that mushy talk of meaning in/of ones life yaddayadda purpose yaddayadda, influece yaddayadda... now, a person dosent need to be a musician to fulfill these ideals, but do i? i do believe so, absolutely.)

i just feel called to play and teach, (i honestly think you cant do one without the other) and want to be, and feel that i can be, a great player.
believe me, i am well aware of the arduous task of becoming a professional musician - of 'making it'. but as seemingly impossible as it may be, its what im going to do, or try as hard as i can.

thanks for listening, and for the advice!
_________________
"If a composer could say what he had to say in words, he would not bother trying to say it in music."
-Gustav Mahler

Benge 3 Bb
Bach Chicago C
L.A. Benge D (no Eb slide)
Dillon 3+1 Picc modified
Blessing Flugelhorn

kehaulani · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:43 pm Post subject:

Dave, I'm still reading a lot of denial and rationalisations in your comments. The saying about music being for "those who can't do anything else" does not mean that they (we) do it by default, e.g.one can't learn plumbing. It means that they are compelled in a positive way to make music. And that doesn't exclude that same musician having also a mastery of plumbing, mathematics or physics.

If you couldn't learn the basics of, or qualify for, some of the trades you mentioned above, my bet is that it had little to do with your being unable "to do anything else" as it had to do with self-sabotage; again getting back to deeper, more personal issues.

I wish you all the best and join the others here in encouraging you to do the best thing for yourself. Good luck, my man!
_________________
You can't blow it if you haven't lived it.

"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker

Schilke B7
Martin Committee (1956)
Connstellation 38B (1959)
Hans Hoyer G10 French Horn

trombahonker · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:34 pm Post subject:

Dave,

Something to note concerning admission into an undergraduate program and your past college time: With many schools you don't actually have to notify them of study in post-secondary institutions. As far as I know, there is not a "standard" for this with undergraduates, and I know several people who attended schools for a while, then dropped out, and have now reentered an undergraduate program without utilizing their prior college credits.

Of course, you would not receive credit for the work you did in your past degree program.

If you want to play, play. If going to school is what you want to do, go for it.

~Aaron

HornnOOb · Posted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:34 pm Post subject:

Practice, practice, practice. If you practice and study 2-3 hours a day, 5-6 days a wek (or more) (including participation in music/band programs etc.), you will be a heavy hitter before you're 28. Keep it up and by the time you're 38, you will be a great player.

The choice is yours.
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Big Dave88 · Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject:

kehaulani -

i try not to dismiss ideas immediately, so i say, with some reluctance, that perhaps you are right; but i will also say, that i think you are perhaps missing the point of what i was trying to say...

let me be clear, i in no way feel as if i am 'reduced' to playing trumpet, i feel called to do so.
at the risk of sounding like a religious invalid, its what God wants me to do.

trumpet was out of my life for a year, and my life was found wanting. i looked for alternative careers, but as i have stated, the endeavor, whatever it was, seemed pointless. i was lead, by God, back to the horn, and things are going great, although i am still abit uncertain of my self, and my future, so i reached out here. although, its obvious that i should reach out to God as well, and continue to have faith and trust in Him.

annnddd.......

just to be obvious, because i suppose i must;

i love playing - nay, i love music. i love making music. i love practicing to get better, so i can better express myself. i love expressing myself to other people. i think of music as a language, and talking through my instrument, saying precisely what i want to say, is the ultimate goal. i like teaching as well. i say like, deliberately.

i love the trumpet, its power, presence, and brilliance - particularly its orchestral manifestation. the trumpet sound is the sound of a leader - it is a sound that leads, inherently. i love that. i love that the trumpet demands to be heard - it is not a instrument whose music can be 'dismissed' by the listener, it is not an instrument that can be chosen not to be heard, such as, shall we say, classical guitar - and because of this, it is less accessible for people, because it is more demanding. i love that.

perhaps, that is enough positive reason to pursue a career in the trumpet?

and, thank you ALL for you assurances, and advice!
_________________
"If a composer could say what he had to say in words, he would not bother trying to say it in music."
-Gustav Mahler

Benge 3 Bb
Bach Chicago C
L.A. Benge D (no Eb slide)
Dillon 3+1 Picc modified
Blessing Flugelhorn

Goro · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:54 am Post subject:

Look, to be honest, when I was 22 - I had no problems with the trumept. I have been blessed with impeccable technique, and a pretty amazing sound.

You should be in your prime at this age (and maybe beginning some sort of decline in a few years if you are like me). because you might be starting to get kind of aged.

Keep practicing a bunch, rest plenty, and stay away from red meat to prlongue your career. Also consider acupuncture.
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trombino · Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 1:00 pm Post subject:

Oh Lord, please bless me " with impeccable technique, and a pretty amazing sound."