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Parduba double cup mouthpieces


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cleanhead77@embarqmail
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Parduba double cup mouthpieces Reply with quote

What can anyone say about Parduba mouthpieces, both the old vintage ones and the modern reproductions?
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can say that they varied a lot based on what time period they were produced in. I have a really old one and I've had some less old ones and I've had the modern ones. The rim shape has been different on all of them.

The new ones are consistent, of course. If I were to give any advice, it would only be to not expect any one old one to have the same rim as another old one or a new one.

The one very old one I still have, seems shallower with a larger backbore than the not so old ones. I have an unfounded theory that the very old one I have is the same as the Harry James models and that the standard line got a bit deeper and tighter as time went on. But, with so few samples, my theory might be so much hogwash.

I think Robert still plays his....

Tom
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silverhorn
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have the new model so i cannot comment on the old. It's a great design but very embouchure specific. If you play with lots of chop in the cup or let your lips fall into the cup, you will get a fuzzy sound at best and it will not work. If you keep your chops from falling into the cup, it is one of the most efficient mouthpieces around with a super easy high register yet having an amazingly full sound down low because of the second deeper cup. The wide flat cushion rim is extremely comfortable for me and helps endurance too. I love these mouthpieces but it's definitely one of those things that you will want to try before you buy.
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Usedtobegood
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a friend that was given a box of mouthpieces. Must be at least 100 in there and many are Pardubas including the Harry James model. I tried it and several others and they weren't my cup or tea, I fell in it and didn't like my sound. Harry could sure play the shxt out of his though!
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cleanhead77@embarqmail
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To Usedtobegood -
If this is out of line may the moderator strike this from this post.
To play a Parduba without your lip hitting the edge of the upper cup keep you corners good and tight -this will keep the lips from protruding to deep into the cup. If that doesn't work for you, I'd be interested in some of the Pardubas you found in the box.
Bill B.
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Ed Lee
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cleanhead77@embarqmail wrote:
To Usedtobegood -
.
To play a Parduba without your lip hitting the edge of the upper cup keep you corners good and tight -this will keep the lips from protruding to deep into the cup. If that doesn't work for you, I'd be interested in some of the Pardubas you found in the box. Bill B.


The above is sound advice playing on any mpc IMO. When you allow your lip to enter the cup you alter playing characteristics of the mpc, and in shallower mpcs you are likely to bottom out / shut down. Here again "arm pressure" in attempts to play altissimo is your worst enemy and only indicates you yet lack the lip strength to do so.

I too would be interested in an old HJ 5 as was the size Harry used. The HJs were a special modification that John Parduba made for Harry and sold to everybody. I once had one but it went bye bye along with my Martin trumpet during my first marriage.
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gbdeamer
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played on a vintage 5 1/2 * for about 6 months last year. There were times when I played like a MONSTER with that thing, but other times I played like a grade-school kid.

Definitely will shut you down if you try to muscle your way around it.

I'll have one in the marketplace in a couple of weeks.
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lipshurt
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Along the way I have experimented rather extensively with the parduba style double cup.
Basically the parduba is a fairly normal shallow mouthpiece, with a medium undercut, but then there is a scooped out funnel shaped entrance to the throat. It is pretty drastic on some of the models. Each model seems to have a different amount of material scooped out at the throat entrance, and the variance is huge, model to model.

For a while every time a really good player came by who really sounded awesome on one of my shallow cups, I would have them try an identical cup with the scooped out throat entrance. 100% of the time, it was terrible. Keep in mind, these are great players who can play a shallow mouthpiece. The double cup thing just ruined any kind of efficiency, or acoustic balance in the mouthpiece.
I did the same thing by making some cups with the much less drastic scoop that callet uses in the superchops cup. This was better, but still it was never better than the same cup without the scoop. The scoop does darken the sound a bit, so for some players that get a really edgy sound on a shallow piece, it might be an improvement of sorts. Still, the guys that can play a shallow cup all sounded WAY better without the scoop. The scoop just made it darker but worse in a weird kind of unsuccessful way. Darker but worse is a good way to describe it.

I have never seen a Harry james model, so maybe that one has some magic, I see that as being entirely possible and even probable. harry would not play one if it was bad i guess. Does anyone know about what year he made the switch to the double cup? I would like to compare recordings.

I really think that if a parduba works for you, it is because the rim contour and upper part of the cup are working for you, not that scoop thing down in the bottom of the cup.
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Usedtobegood
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys I will see my buddy at rehearsal Wednesday night and will talk to him. If he wants to sell the Pardubas I will take an inventory of what he has and let you know.
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crazyhorns
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello . If you find an older Parduba 4 1/2 please let me know if it is available for sale. I have a few Parduba pieces available in the marketpalce also.
http://trumpetherald.com/marketplace.php?task=detail&id=31546&s=MPCS--New--Vintage--and-Rare
~Steve
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KingSilverSonic
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple of years ago I purchased a 1963 King Symphony 20 DB trumpet, and it is just an awesome horn. The guy I got it from kept telling me I had to get a Harry James Parduba mouthpiece as this was the horn that Harry played. I wasn't all that interested in getting this mouthpiece but he kept hounding me to get one so I did. As Usedtobegood said, it was not my cup of tea. Maybe I did not give it enough time so as to get used to it, but it just did not feel right. Ended up selling the mouthpiece and came close to getting my money back. My GRs work fine in the King.
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cleanhead77@embarqmail
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for the useful comments here. Can anyone tell me how to tell the older ones from the modern ones? Do they both have "J parduba & son new york, double cup * (model number)* and pat. no.2018.738" stamped on them? The consensus here seems to be the older ones are quite inconsistent while the modern ones are pretty consistent. I have some of various sizes (6, 6 1/2, 5, 4, and 2.) but I don't know whether they're old or modern or whether the new rims would match any of the ones I have.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Sat May 28, 2011 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The new ones have a finely-machined groove at the top of the shank before the decorative parts, and the shank and bottom of the cup on the outside are not polished. Only the rim is polished.

Also, the lettering on the original ones I've had were always crudely hand-stamped. The lettering on the new ones were machine marked (but with the broken K) so it's even.

Once you have one in your hands, it's clear it was machine made and the original looks hand made.

Tom
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Usedtobegood
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Guys,

Finally got to look at the magic box of mouthpieces and there were only 4 Pardubas in there...sorry I thought there were more. Just an FYI here is what was in there:

#5 H. James Model cornet
#5 H. James Model trumpet
#3 gold plated
#5 H. James Model trumpet that looks like it has been cut for some kind of sleeve or something. Shank is shorter and narrower.

Surpringly a large number of Callet's in that box. Have never played any of those so took a couple home to try.
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VetPsychWars
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usedtobegood wrote:

#5 H. James Model trumpet that looks like it has been cut for some kind of sleeve or something. Shank is shorter and narrower.


I'll bet that is actually to fit 20s horns that have a smaller shank.

Tom
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GordonH
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2011 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a very old 5 with a badly worn shank that needs tape on it to make it fit. Its a handy mouthpiece with an even tone throughout the range. I did buy a modern 5 and it was a completely different rim. I think the best option for it would be to have it cut down to a top and have it threaded for a warburton backbore (assuming the throats would match up). Its too badly worn even for Reeves sleeves.
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Usedtobegood
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A couple are pretty worn I will try to get some pics up but hard to get them in focus with my camera....a photography genius I am not!
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mineo50
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gbdeamer wrote:
I played on a vintage 5 1/2 * for about 6 months last year. There were times when I played like a MONSTER with that thing, but other times I played like a grade-school kid.

Definitely will shut you down if you try to muscle your way around it.

I'll have one in the marketplace in a couple of weeks.


I have used a 5* James model since 1975 when my trumpet teacher told me my Olds trumpet sounded too much like a cornet. He suggested I try out the Parduba. As above, when I started with it, the sounds were very erractic. I went from lead trumpet in the communtiy college band to a second part instead. The sensation was almost the same a an adolescent boy with a changing voice. I never knew when it would "crack."

About 8 months into the process things evened out and then the improvements became exponentially better. My tone , range and endurance all got much better. What kept me going for eight months was that when the Parduba and I were getting along the sound was super. It was kind of like a preview of the things to come.

I currently have three of the 5* james model mouthpieces, 2 trumpet and 1 cornet. I bought all three directly from John Parduba over the telephone. Two of them are the original older style. The new style was purchased just before he retired due to the plating wearing off of my original mouthpiece.

The newer one imho does not feel qiute right and does not play as well. This is a subjective opinion and I have no quantifiable basis for it. I will say that shortly after I started using the newer mouthpiece I sent the original one in to be replated.

I am still using the first one I bought and after the "blood shed" in adapting to it, I have not played on any other kind of mouthpiece. I quess the real upside to this other than playing with a great mouthpiece, is I have not been on a mouthpiece safari since I was 25.
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sungman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2011 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I played on a newer 5 HJ model, I liked it for a while but I always felt like there was a lot of pressure and a cut off point around the higher ranges.
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forrest
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been using a Kanstul version of the 6 for the past year.

I had a GR consultation with Scott at The Horn Section in Florida while passing through for bushiness and found out how harsh it sounded during the consultation.

Finally, after all these years I ended up with a pro helping me find the right size mouthpiece- a 66M. The difference in sound is amazing.

There's something to be said for the double cup, but I believe I took a good step forward thanks to Scott and his expertise.
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