• FAQ  • Search  • Memberlist  • Usergroups   • Register   • Profile  • Log in to check your private messages  • Log in 

first valve trigger for an old trumpet



 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
dizzy1234
New Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:09 am    Post subject: first valve trigger for an old trumpet Reply with quote

Hi,

I have an old trumpet (selmer 1932) that for obvious reasons doesn't have a first valve trigger. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was a) advisable and b) possible to buy a trigger or to get one made for the first valve, and whether anyone had had any experience with this kinda thing.

ta
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mrsemman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 650
Location: West Brookfield, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While not having any experience with that year and model horn, I can safely say that a trigger could be mounted on the horn.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Eastman C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Selmer Paris Piccolo
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 5825
Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you noticed that it needs it? I learned to play on horns without and haven't seen the need for one yet.

If you do, as mentioned, one can be added.

Tom
_________________


Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dizzy1234
New Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply

Do you know if it could normally be done without modifying any of the existing parts, i.e. as an new piece of tubing, so that I can still change back to the current setup? And would it be prohibitively expensive?

Incidentally, it's a selmer 1932 Louis Armstrong Special, although I can't seem to find much info on the model.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 7627
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not an expert, but if the slide wasn't designed to be moved adding a trigger might require reworking it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
trumq
Veteran Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 335
Location: san francisco

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
I am not an expert, but if the slide wasn't designed to be moved adding a trigger might require reworking it.


Doesn't it have to be shortened a bit? First slides without a trigger or ring are set up as a compromise between the longest and shortest lengths needed to play first valve combos in tune, whereas slides built with triggers/rings are set to the shortest and extended to tune the rest, no?
_________________
paul

Henri Selmer 80J
'63 Olds Studio
'55 King Liberty
King altonium
'47 Conn 80A
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
silverhorn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 620

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 7:54 am    Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet Reply with quote

dizzy1234 wrote:
Hi,

I have an old trumpet (selmer 1932) that for obvious reasons doesn't have a first valve trigger. I was wondering if anyone knew if it was a) advisable and b) possible to buy a trigger or to get one made for the first valve, and whether anyone had had any experience with this kinda thing.

ta


A good repair tech can install one for you. I had Robb Stewart fabricate a first valve trigger from scratch for one of my vintage horns that never came with one, because I wanted it to look a certain way. He could have attached a stock trigger too if I didn't want any particular custom design. All parts can be removed without damaging the horn if I or a future owner wanted to remove it someday. The rod assembly also pops on and off for easy cleaning. Robb even builds antique replica horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do.


Last edited by silverhorn on Tue May 31, 2011 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 5825
Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dizzy1234 wrote:
Thanks for the reply

Do you know if it could normally be done without modifying any of the existing parts, i.e. as an new piece of tubing, so that I can still change back to the current setup? And would it be prohibitively expensive?

Incidentally, it's a selmer 1932 Louis Armstrong Special, although I can't seem to find much info on the model.


I sense that you don't necessarily mean a "trigger" but perhaps mean a "hook"?

If you can do with just a thumb hook or ring, you can probably get a slide fabricated with a hook on it. That would replace your existing slide, which you can keep original.

Installing an actual trigger means much more modification to the horn, in the soldering on of the trigger assembly and soldering the fitting onto the slide.

Tom
_________________


Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
davidkoch
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 27 Dec 2007
Posts: 1263
Location: Allendale, Michigan

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did this to an ambassador. It's not the cleanest job in the world, but I owe that to my lack of proper tools to fit the thing and poor soldering skills.
It took me about 10 minutes to work that thing.


_________________
Hi, my name is David and I'm a trumpetaholic.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Dale Proctor
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 26 May 2005
Posts: 7595
Location: Heart of Dixie

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:09 am    Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet Reply with quote

silverhorn wrote:
...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do.


So, how do you build an antique horn?...
_________________
Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 7627
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 9:27 am    Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet Reply with quote

Dale Proctor wrote:
silverhorn wrote:
...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do.


So, how do you build an antique horn?...

First one needs to build a time machine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
mrsemman
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 650
Location: West Brookfield, MA

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A trigger can be applied without requiring a new first valve slide. However, if you meant to say that you wanted a first valve slide saddle or ring, then, it might require some work, such as reversing the tubing on the slide and the port to the first valve block.
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Zeus Guarnerius Trumpet
Eastman C Trumpet
Zeus Guarnerius Flugelhorn
Selmer Paris Piccolo
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LittleRusty
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Posts: 7627
Location: Santa Clara, Ca

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

trumq makes a good point. Normally trumpets that do not have an adjustable first valve slide have the slide designed to give the best compromise between differing length requirements. It is possible that your slide is a little longer than would be required as a compromise.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dizzy1234
New Member


Joined: 25 Feb 2009
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies. A couple of things:

I'm not terribly up on the nomenclature of the different parts of the trumpet so forgive me if I get something wrong.

To be clear, I'm absolutely not going to alter any part of the trumpet as I have it now. What I wanted to know about is whether there I could get a new part for it that would slot into where the first valve slide is now.

Someone asked whether it was strictly necessary as it's possible to lip the notes into tune. I'm comfortable enough doing just that, but I was curious what other people think - i.e. do people think it's worth going for a new part.

I've attached some pictures of the first valve slide in position, slightly off, and entirely off if that helps:



Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Capt.Kirk
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 5792

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes it can be done either way. You will not get the ultimate compromise between too long and too short like on a reversed set up but you will still have more then enough to help......You could like wise trim a 1/4 inch off each outer and inner tube.....Other then that I would lapp the slide with .5 micron diamond paste to make it easier to move quickly if the tubes are still tight and I would imagine they are.
_________________
The only easy day was yesterday!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nieuwguyski
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 1718
Location: Santa Cruz County, CA

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most things are possible, for a price. You can certainly have a new first-valve slide with a saddle on an extension fabricated. It may be quite expensive, unless a medium-bore valve crook, with the right radius, can be found.

Another option would be to put a call out for a first slide from a junker Selmer Grand Prix 19B, which could then be modified.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
VetPsychWars
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 5825
Location: Greenfield WI

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can play in tune now, I wouldn't personally pay a couple hundred dollars for a replacement slide with a saddle.

But, like I said, I grew up playing that way so I never did see what the big deal was for horns designed this way.

Tom
_________________


Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Giardinelli 10C mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
silverhorn
Heavyweight Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 620

PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2011 3:21 pm    Post subject: Re: first valve trigger for an old trumpet Reply with quote

LittleRusty wrote:
Dale Proctor wrote:
silverhorn wrote:
...Robb even builds antique horns for museums so there isn't too much that he can't do.


So, how do you build an antique horn?...

First one needs to build a time machine.


haha. good one! i meant replica but forgot to put that in there. i'll go back and edit my post now
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    trumpetherald.com Forum Index -> Horns All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group