Which MK Drawing tuning slide to choose?

gospeljohn

Hi guys
Well,after a few weeks of blowing my 8310Z,i find i am feeling tighter and tighter after the F above top C.I notice i have to really push with my diaphragm to get Fsharp and G.
I read on another thread about guys replacing the stock slide with another one,so could anyone who has done this tell me what they now use and why?
Another aspect of this is my mpc; i,m still playing a Schilke 6A4a.But i,m still planning on trying some others, either the same size .630,or a tiny bit wider.For example i bought a Warburton 6es,but its too big,so i,m gonna get a 7ES next.

thanks for any insights

gospelj.
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HOLTON MF HORN ST308S

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:17 pm Post subject:

This is the F# and G at the top of the staff? Or an octave above that?

I am not sure that an equipment change will fix this. It sounds like you should work with a trumpet teacher.

Perhaps working some long tones say with the Caruso book will help. I know it helped me relax in the register above the staff.

gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:50 pm Post subject:

just to be clear ,i mean the notes above top^C,ok?
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mdiceman · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:54 pm Post subject:

Sent you a PM
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LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:58 pm Post subject:

LittleRusty · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:06 pm Post subject:

GospelJohn,

I notice you are located in France. My confusion might be related to a language or cultural issue.

gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:07 pm Post subject:

lol!
i,m english ,we say top c then super c.
Bottom C,Middle C ,topc Double C triple C.I get it in american too now.
This is not really on topic tho is it loçl!
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silverhorn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 681

gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 pm Post subject:

hi silverhorn
haven,t spoken for a while,thanks for your input.
You didn,t say tho;whether it improved your playing?
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crzytptman · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:41 pm Post subject:

I'm just amazed that you've developed the conscious ability to push with your diaphragm - an involuntary muscle and membrane structure designed to pull down and create the vacuum for inhalation.

As for your horn, unless it has a PVA and you've dialed in the gap, any parts you change out are a crap-shoot. That's American slang for totally arbitrary results.

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gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:24 pm Post subject:

i had an operatic vocal training as well as trumpet lessons and i practice yoga breathing.Really, i can feel the muscles tightening and squeezing for that high G.I just had a tooth out at the back,makes 2 gone now,so i,m a bit sore.That might account for the effort needed just now.But i,ve noticed a slow decline in my high G.
I have been backing off for about a month now ,but i will need to not back off too,thats where i,m having slight embouchure trouble.
I,m trying to find where the air column is not being supported.Where i,m fighting the equipment .
Not easy.
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HOLTON MF HORN ST308S

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5792

So are you hoping that a more open blowing main slide will fix the issue? If you only have had this issue since the Yamaha then it is likely an issue with the horn and not you. I do not think you should need to re-invent the way you play for a horn to work for you. Sure some times we need to back off a bit, focus on the aperture or move a little more air but it should not be a huge change!

From the stand point of opening up the blow to prevent the horn shutting down either a larger bore main slide then the current one or a more open design like single radius or ovate. Better yet a combination of the two. Braced or un-braced is not going to make a difference in how well it plays above the staff or it shutting down on you up their. That does have an impact but not on this current discussion. I prefer unbraced main tuning slides especially if going to single radius or ovate. I think putting a brace on an Ovate tuning slide or round one is kind of like trying to serve two master's.

As for materials I would go Nickel inside tubing and bronze crook and Amado or Saturn water key. That should give you about as much core and color as one can get from slide material alone. If they can do it go .004 to .008 larger then the bore of the horn itself. You will gain things you had no idea you did not have with the current slide.
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gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:37 pm Post subject:

yeah,reading some older threads a coupla guys had success with a bronze full radius tuning slide.
I,ve mailed MK too,so waiting for that.
I,m also gonna experiment with my new Qm Warburton bb.The 6ES cup i bought as a size between my lead mpc and a jazz mpc is too wide.
Geno valet suggested a 7ES which i,m gonna try next week hopefully.
There are some other things to take into consideration like i,m doing a lot of sight reading for an audition.That probably affects the horn angle/jaw aspect.I,ve been trying to focus my air more and blow less hard.Thats impacted my range too.But i still like the 8310Z a lot for its sound.
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silverhorn · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jan 2003 Posts: 681

matthes93401 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 26 Feb 2006 Posts: 641

A less expensive suggestion:

A Shew mouthpiece for the Shew trumpet. The Kelly version is inexpensive and very comfortable (not that I play in the upper register very often).

http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmbobbyshew/index.asp

If it doesn't work then you're just out $31 plus shipping.
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gospeljohn · Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:35 pm Post subject:

yep,i agree that whatever tweaks i try probably won,t make a significant difference.My aim is fairly modest; i want a dependable range to play lead where the money is(cruise etc)up to G above topC.
But i want that to be comfortable and let me have total confidence in nailing all those notes night after night.
After a solid year of comeback,i admit that after 4 different bore sized horns i am still playing the same way,same sound, but i am prepared to tweak things so i,ve had the experiences too.That way at least i can,t say i didn,t try everything.I,ve been a trumpet player since i was 12 and i,m now 56.I never thought of many of the things i read here.
Shew mpc,s are too big for me.Thats the thing,i,m real happy with a 6A4a but i,m having difficulty now after testing/Playing the Z horn for enough time to feel and learn about the blow.
I also think that i can do what i did back in the 70,s which was to buy an Olds Recording that took me a long time to learn to play,and then find a great mpc_ a Jet-Tone Symphony Model A that worked fantastic with it.
Tho,both buys were based on simple stuff like just watching lead players at college go crazy on some MF charts ,or simply trying out some mpc,s in London in the best Horn shop in town.The guys there just told me oh yeah try this do that.Real simple,old pros , couldn,t beat all that.
Now of course things have changed enourmously in my world.
And of course things are expensive....
Anyways when i finally get back a proper usable range i,ll be cool.

Thanks guys

gospelJ.
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HOLTON MF HORN ST308S

crzytptman · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:08 am Post subject:

Get the PVA and dial in the gap before changing any parts. It's like trying to improve a cars performance with free flow exhaust when the fuel injectors are clogged and the timing is off.

6A4a on a Z horn is a very tight combo, and then you complain about it being tight! And the Shew lead is too big? It's like a bent dime with a tiny hole drilled in it. Maybe put the 6A4a back in the MF horn and get some lessons.
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Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld)

gospeljohn · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:44 am Post subject:

hmm,i guess just giving myself more time to develop again is probably the best.
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HOLTON MF HORN ST308S

gospeljohn · Posted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:48 pm Post subject:

could also try my Conn22B again,ooer!
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HOLTON MF HORN ST308S