And the Struggle Continues

Still Trying · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:35 pm Post subject: And the Struggle Continues

I think the problem about which I posted has been resolved.
_________________
S. T.

What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

spitvalve · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:35 pm Post subject:

People like that are the reason for the old saying "those that can't do, teach."

I can't even count how many music ed majors I knew in college who justified their lack of excellence on their major instruments with "well, I'm not going to play, I'm going to teach."

Public schools are full of these dorks. My kids have had to suffer with them. I've had to suffer with them, too, back when I was teaching privately.

From a band director in Utah who was making his jazz band play Rob McConnell charts when his lead trumpet player barely had a high D:
"He needs to be able to play this part by next month."

From a Texas high school assistant band director (a percussionist) to the jazz band trumpet section:
"Use more pressure."

Stop the insanity!
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
http://www.bryanwfields.com
http://bardofthenuthouse.com

connicalman · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:50 pm Post subject:

I had just the opposite experience in public school. In band, in sports, and academics, too. Sorry to hear about this ding-dong.

On to a solution: does this instructor have a favorite pedagogue? Other than himself?

Should he agree, you might meet there at the crossroads of a well-known method and agree to disagree about the rest. Should he waffle, obfuscate or tout himself as a know-it-all, you've then got him on a hook and can hang him out to dry.

Is your kindred grandson ready to kick butt and take names? That is, is the young man ready to take a paid lesson from a pro other than family, and explain his choice to the director?

If so, maybe invest your attention and efforts towards a once monthly lesson outside of family or the school.

The school kid sounds like a good egg. Maybe he has a trumpet playing pal who would split the cost of a lesson with him.
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. 28A

royjohn · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:44 pm Post subject: And the struggle continues

Hello spitvalve,

You wrote:

VetPsychWars · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

Parent always trumps teacher. All your daughter has to do is tell the teacher to back off and if he won't, well, a little discussion with the principal would be helpful.

If THAT doesn't bear fruit, then I wouldn't blame her and you for yanking him out of band.

Tom
_________________

Buescher Lightweight 400
Other Buescher horns 1939--1955
Buescher Duo-Cup 88-E mouthpiece
Humes and Berg mutes
http://mmccband.org

zackh411 · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 3:26 pm Post subject:

I don't think it would be wise to pull him out of band entirely; just make sure he knows that there are going to be competing (and often downright stupid) methodologies and he should learn to stick with what works for him.
I have a suggestion. Find a reputable pro player to give him a lesson and evaluate his playing. If he gets some good pointers and advice from a really legit pro player and his band directors contradict them, who would he be more likely to listen to?
What about Kieth Fiala? He's a phenomenal player who really has things figured out. If your grandson got a lesson from that guy he would be certain to take his word over some dumb^%# band director.
_________________
Stomvi VRII Lightweight in Silver
1946 Martin Committee #2 Bore
Bach Strad 183 Flugel
Stomvi Elite Piccolo
Bobby Shew Jazz Mouthpiece w/ 18 Drill (Legit)
Yamaha Miyashiro 1 w/ 18 Drill (Jazz)
Stomvi JMZVR w/ M4 Backbore Jim Manley Mouthpiece (Lead)

Still Trying · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:18 pm Post subject:

When the time comes, I'll hook him up with a pro teacher. I already have several to choose from including Clint McLaughlin (posts on this site as "Pops") and a local pro named Burt Truax, ex-Dallas Symphony and a James Stamp student. I also wouldn't mind him taking lessons from a young man, named Andrew Fowler, who used to post on this site regularly, but I'm not sure if he's still in the Fort Worth area. He was a monster player in high school and now he has a trumpet performance degree from TCU.

But right now, I feel competent to instruct a 7th grader. I studied from Dr. Richard Burkart, while in college. Dr. Burkart, if I'm not mistaken, was one of the founding members of the ITG and one of its earlier Persidents. I also played symphony for 11 years back in the day. Last year I was invited to play with the Galveston, TX Symphony and they have invited me back this year. I'm not a pro, but I don't suck either.

connicalman · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:39 pm Post subject:

Say, to clarify, i'd keep the student going to a good teacher. In your shoes I'd bend to that teacher's way, and invite the school director to do the same. It sounds like the child wants to play and likes it. Best to all of you!
_________________
kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. 28A

royjohn · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 4:42 pm Post subject: And the struggle continues

Hi S.T.,

You wrote:

jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 742

Rick Bogard at UTA in Arlington might be willing to help, or at least recommend a local teaching pro that can give the kid a look-over.

When I was that age they said the same thing about me... I have more on my top than bottom. My range is just fine.

spitvalve · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:34 pm Post subject:

To clarify my earlier remarks, I have met some band directors who were very fine players and teachers, and only hired me to teach trumpet because they didn't have the time to work with the kids privately. But too many band directors don't have sufficient proficiency on their major instrument, let alone on others, to be teaching anything other than the rudiments, and should encourage private lessons with local professionals.

Music ed programs in universities can't teach students to play all of the instruments well, unless they want to stay an extra eight semesters in their undergrad program. I wouldn't dare to teach clarinet or oboe (though I have played enough flute I was able to get my daughter off to a good start). But I feel there's no excuse for a music ed student to not reach a high level of proficiency on his major instrument, get some gig experience, and know what is expected in the real world. To not get that is to miss out on the opportunity to really develop some musicianship. I have met too many band directors that sucked on their major instrument. Granted, most never had practice time any more, but even out-of-shape chops should not betray a lack of musicianship. I played in a community band in Utah made up mostly of university professors and band directors, and it was quite good--but there was one junior high band director, who played the alto sax--and it was obvious he didn't know diddly about tuning or rhythms or dynamics--i.e., he had no musicianship skills, no talent, and should never have been a band director, let alone a schoolteacher. I went to work with his band one day and it was downright painful. No discipline, no music happening, just noise. One of my star students, one I had started in fifth grade, went to this school, and within four months of starting seventh grade, he had a suckier tone than a beginner and had seemingly lost all of the natural talent he'd had up to that point. He was embarrassed at playing so well and chose to go with the crowd. This clueless director should have chosen another profession many years earlier--it was hard to believe he'd been "teaching" at that school for nearly thirty years.
_________________
Bryan Fields
----------------
http://www.bryanwfields.com
http://bardofthenuthouse.com

Goro · Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:54 pm Post subject:

It's band class.

The people responsible for these classes usually are responsible for organizing a concert, half-time presentation, or preparing for a "contest." They'll take the path of least resistance every time because of this.

We shouldn't expect too much from them. All that matters is if they get a "1" ... or something.
_________________
I am Goro the four arm master of gap measurement.

Geophyzz · Regular Member Joined: 22 Jul 2010 Posts: 70

as a trumpet player and future band director in the dallas area (does he go to Keller schools?). i will say that that director is a moron(from the information given). it also sound like an ego trip to me.
Is this the main director for the district?. if not, then talk to him/her, have your grandson play for him. I'm sure Bert or Pops would help you out.
Most of all. keep on helping your grandson out. the teacher cant say squat about what his parents wish for him to do. and if this director continues to undermine what you and his mother wish, go to the principal.

Still Trying · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:41 am Post subject:

I never intended this thread to be a generic bash of band directors. I've been in music and around band directors all my life and I have never encountered one quiet like this one before. Most have been competent or superior on their major instruments and did much more good than harm.

mbradd · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:02 am Post subject:

There could be many reasons why the director is doing things the way he is. Bottom line is, he is the director that your grandson is going to have to deal with if he's going to play in the band. You can be adversarial if you want to, but in most cases, that just makes things worse.

As a band director, if it were me, I suggest you call and leave one more message to the effect of," Mr. So-and-so, I've tried to contact you several times about my grandson. I've yet to hear back from you. I'm sure you're very busy but I really need to talk to you. If I don't hear back from you by tomorrow, I'll need to contact your Principal. Thank you.", etc.-etc. You may want to double up with an email as well.

If you don't hear back from him within 24 hours, then you've made every legitimate attempt to deal directly with the man without subjecting him to administrative scrutiny, something no teacher wants to deal with.

In most cases, dealing with a bozo band director is a complete pain in the butt, however it's important for your grandson to continue to play in a group of his peers. The experience is invaluable, even if it means dealing with this knucklehead.

Best of luck! And please let us know how it turns out.
_________________
Adams A4 Shepherds Crook Bb
1970's Bach 37 Bb
1970's Getzen Flugel

kanemania · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:03 am Post subject:

I can certainly understand your frustration with this "teacher," but be careful that it doesn't create an uncomfortable situation at school for your grandson.

I don't think he needs a new teacher, FWIW; you seem to be doing fine. But you and his mother need to have a meeting with (a) a counselor in your school's guidance department, and then (b) a meeting with that counselor, the principal and the "teacher." You can certainly disagree about pedagogy, but no professional educator would ever endorse the public humiliation of a student.

Bottom line: For many, many reasons other than trumpet instruction, you do want the boy to stay in the band. Neither you nor the band director should prevent that.

Still Trying · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:57 am Post subject:

I appreciate the advice, especially from band directors and future band directors. I am very sensitive to the fact that my grandson is going to have this band director for three more years counting the present school year. The last thing I want to create is a direct confrontation between me and his school teacher.
_________________
S. T.

What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

gbdeamer · Heavyweight Member Joined: 31 Dec 2007 Posts: 1541

Still Trying · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:21 am Post subject:

The decision to pull my grandson out of band has not been made, and everybodies objections to pulling him out have been duly noted. But right now, I would prefer he stay right where he is.
_________________
S. T.

What do we have that we did not receive, and if we received it, why do we glory, as if we received it not?

mbradd · Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:02 am Post subject: