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value of a Claude Gordon?



 
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alpmomof2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:35 pm    Post subject: value of a Claude Gordon? Reply with quote

I have a Claude Gordon/Selmer USA trumpet that I would love to know the value of. I am not sure of the year it was produced but it does have a serial number of 000161. It is in really great shape. Can anyone direct me to finding it's worth?



alpmomof2
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: value of a Claude Gordon? Reply with quote

alpmomof2 wrote:
I have a Claude Gordon/Selmer USA trumpet that I would love to know the value of. I am not sure of the year it was produced but it does have a serial number of 000161. It is in really great shape. Can anyone direct me to finding it's worth?



alpmomof2


In lacquer around $1000 and if it's silver-plated then perhaps around $1200. That's my guess anyway. Personally, I'd keep it if I were you. It's intrinsic value is way higher (among the best playing horns ever produced at any price level in my opinion).

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John's estimate is pretty accurate.

I sell CG trumpets through my site as a service to people selling and buying. I handle the shipping and credit card transaction and give an unbiased evaluation. In the past 10 years I would say the lowest price has been $700 and the highest has been $1500 for the CG Selmers. That would include lacquer and silver and horns in absolute new condition to ones that needed some repair.

The biggest plus would be to have all original parts and not have changed a lead pipe or bell or removed braces, which some people have done. Other things that can mess-up the CG Selmer and CG Benge trumpets are bad repairs. Look over the horn to make sure there hasn't been a sloppy repair on dents at the start of the bell (i.e. where it joins the first valve) or at the start of the lead pipe (i.e. near the mouthpiece). Those smaller areas of the tapers can easily be changed by a repairman that is too aggressive in removing dents.

I personally love the CG Selmer and have only played that exclusively since 1984. Others, like Harry Kim, have played the CG Benge for 40 years and are equally attached to that horn.

What sets the CG trumpets apart from any other horn is being free blowing and controllable and versatile. It totally fits with Claude's thinking about equipment and not needing to have a horn to play lead vs. orchestral playing.

Contact me if you want help selling it.

I sold one about a year ago that I should have bought myself. It was 003 and in BRAND NEW condition. Someone found it at the Selmer factory as they were trashing things. The seller got it for maybe $50. I have no idea why it was there. Claude's horn was 006. These things show-up in odd places from time to time. I know some guys that own 6 or more CG trumpets, which is easier to do than owning any of the new trumpets selling for thousands more dollars.

Jeff
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googanelli
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had number 187 for a while. It was an awesome horn! The price quoted seems pretty spot on. The only thing I can add is that horn prices right now are all over the place. I've seen horns selling for more and for for less. The CG would probably sell well here depending on condition. Of course, you could always look for trades too......

Joe
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Jeff_Purtle
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The price fluctuation is likely the economy.

I have a 1907 Boston 3 Star cornet that about 10 years ago was bought for $1500, which was normal for similar horns on eBay at that time. Within a couple months I saw a couple similar horns sell for $4500. Now similar things are selling around $1000.

I have a feeling that when the economy settles down the price of older horns will jump up even more again. New horns are ridiculously high priced and the gap between new vs. used is too big. Things will only get higher with inflation caused by printing more money. People will always be willing to spend money on things they believe have quality.

I am just thankful that I have great playing horns and don't need to waste my time trying to find something. I would rather practice and play.

Jeff
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff_Purtle wrote:
I am just thankful that I have great playing horns and don't need to waste my time trying to find something. I would rather practice and play.


I second that!
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BPL
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.. I third that.

.. how much of a big deal are dents on the bell? My CG Selmer has some dents.. carelessness, I guess... and I will get them fixed, but how important is it to the horn's performance?
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BPL wrote:
.. I third that.

.. how much of a big deal are dents on the bell? My CG Selmer has some dents.. carelessness, I guess... and I will get them fixed, but how important is it to the horn's performance?


The closer to the end of the bell, the less likely a dent is to effect playability. Assuming a dent isn't big enough to actually constrict airflow (and few are), the main problem with a dent is if it exists where a vibration node occurs. If it does, intonation is impaired for one or a particular set of notes (all notes that cause the node to be at that particular spot in the horns tubing). If no nodes occur at the point of a dent, that dent will have little if any effect on the way the horn plays.

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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Evita, Grease, Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.
14 Year Claude Gordon Student
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BPL
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

..hmmmm.. makes me think I should get it fixed. (The dents are all located from 4" to 7" from the end of the bell. I haven't noticed any intonation issues, but I figure if I'm trying to develop the knack, I want to be sure the instrument is responding as it's supposed to) Thanks John.

The only problem is, that means I'll be playing a Yamaha for a couple of weeks while I await the repair. Which of course, is the reason I haven't already had it repaired.

Brett
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alpmomof2
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am considering selling it for sure. I will send pics of it to anyone that may be interested.
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A student of mine just bought a lacquer CG Selmer on eBay for less than $500! She's since stripped the lacquer off and it is a good solid horn (only medium-small dent near the end of the bell). The horn plays great.
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Alain Desrochers
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

Need advise...

I can get the Selmer CG #374 for 450$. The seller is telling me that it is in a GREAT shape.

I read somewhere on the forum that the horns 300 to 500 have not been exactly like they were supposed.

What do I do?

Thanks
A
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Alain Desrochers
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me again,

forgot to mention that I will have to drive 3h to be able to try it.

Thais the reason I hesitate. 3h to go + 3 h to come back...

Need advise!

thanks

A
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alain Desrochers wrote:
Hi,

Need advise...

I can get the Selmer CG #374 for 450$. The seller is telling me that it is in a GREAT shape.

I read somewhere on the forum that the horns 300 to 500 have not been exactly like they were supposed.

What do I do?

Thanks
A


Yes, some of the horns in that range were not built to the correct tolerances (someone at the Bach factory thought they knew better than Claude).

Larry Souza can measure a CG Selmer and if it's not correct, he can adjust it. I think at that low price you can buy the horn for, it would be worth the risk. The cost of getting it put to specs wouldn't be enough to make the total cost too much. And there's a good chance you'll send it to Larry and he'll give it a clean bill of health (it was a minority of the horns in the serial range mentioned that were effected). Larry's contact info can be found on this Webpage:

https://www.purtle.com/brass-repairs

I say, go for it!

Best wishes,

John Mohan
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1st Trpt for The Color Purple at The Mercury Theater, Chicago
Former 1st Trpt for Cats, Phantom of the Opera, West Side Story,
Evita, Grease, Disney's Hunchback of Notre Dame, etc.
14 Year Claude Gordon Student
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Alain Desrochers
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi John,

I went to see and try the horn last weekend.
Feels very stuffy...

it looks like the bell has been removed and re-installed...

I'm not sure the bell is the original bell on the horn.

Do you know if those trumpets had any marking on the bell.
Do you know a way to identify if it a CG selmer bell.

Thanks

A
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John Mohan
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There should be no markings at all on the bell. The only way to sort of tell if the bell is original is to have another correct CG Selmer and do a comparison by seeing how far items of various diameter will go into each (they should go the same distance in each of the bells). Cup mute, straigh mute, then perhaps PVC pipes of various diameters. Or, a set of Vernier Calipers could be used to measure Bell tube diameter at various measured distances from the ends of the bells and compare them this way.

The horn should not feel stuffy at all. Not as open as a Schilke X3, but more open feeling than a Bach 37.
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