Can I teach jazz if I'm no good at improv?

bln748

I'm primarily a classical player, but I also listen to LOTS of jazz. Do you think that I will be able to teach middle school and/or high school kids to improv, even if I only know basic concepts of improv myself?
_________________
Blane Gosselin

EBjazz · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:14 pm Post subject:

Hasn't stopped 98% of the band directors out there.

Maybe you can learn some and get better at it before you start them. Have a look at some of my videos here: http://www.bolvinmusic.com/musicNet/lessons-1.html
_________________
Eric Bolvin

www.bolvinmusic.com

cb3 · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: ok

As long as no one is more advanced than you AND you are willing and able to advance yourself AND can pass on what you've learned effectively, I don't see why not. Basically, stay one or two steps ahead of your most advanced student and be able to teach what you've learned and you'll be fine. This will be a great thing for you as well because you will be forced to upgrade your improv. skills as I know you wouldn't want a student of that age range to show you up lol. Have fun with it.

2-5-1 · Heavyweight Member Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Posts: 1382

No.
_________________
www.mikesailorsmusic.com

crzytptman · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:34 pm Post subject:

NO.
_________________
Crazy Nate aka Jive-a-licious
www.themodernancients.com
www.flipoakes.com
Strive to have a great day, full of learning and enlightenment, using the mind that God gave you.
"Am I really crazy, or just so sane I blow your mind?" - Cosmo Kramer

Crazy Finn · Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:48 pm Post subject:

PH · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:41 am Post subject:

Yes. IF...

1) You know the right information and knowledge to convey.

2) You convey it effectively and with passion.

3) Your own horn is always in your hand when you are teaching.

4) You are constantly learning alongside them, playing, listening & transcribing. Stay two steps ahead of them in your personal growth.

5) You are not afraid or embarrassed to sound bad in front of your kids as you learn together, and you aren't embarrassed if you don't yet know enough yo answer all their questions.
_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Professor of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops since 1976

mbradd · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:11 am Post subject:

For the guys telling bin748 no, COME ON! You'd rather these kids have NO access to playing jazz music than some exposure through their band director? No wonder jazz draws closer to extinction every year.

To the OP: Do what you can do. Because you're asking the question, I think it shows that you are approaching this with the right attitude. You know you don't know how to do everything. That will keep you humble. You are giving them a musical experience. As long as you do it respectfully to the music, to the best of your ability, and are not afraid to do yourself what you are asking of your kids, it will be a positive experience for them. So, do the best that you can.

Give them a good mix of standards literature and some more modern rock/funk/fusion pieces to draw in styles possibly a little closer to what they might listen to on their own (yes, I realize most kids are not listening to funk and fusion, but it does draw from a rock-like esthetic).

One of the things that I do with my kids is to write out arpeggios, scales, guide tones, etc. over the chord changes for the solo sections in our songs. We play through them as a band. We run patterns through the circle of 5ths, do some call and response stuff. And I take time to LISTEN to the masters at least once a week. Exposing them to the guys who mastered this stuff does wonders!

And if possible, bring in guests! There may be a number of great jazz musicians in your area that may be willing to come in a couple of times a month and work with them. It could be a win-win. You get a guest clinician, they may get a few private students out of it, in which case you win even more as you'll have more confident and competent students studying with a jazz musician.
_________________
Adams A4 Shepherds Crook Bb
1970's Bach 37 Bb
1970's Getzen Flugel

Billy B · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:15 am Post subject:

Nonsense Eliminator · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:39 am Post subject:

A couple of pieces of perspective:

1. If you were to add 15 minutes of improvisation practice to your daily routine, you would have spent more time working on it than 90% of band teachers, probably including some of the self-proclaimed "jazz" players.

2. If it is possible (and expected) to teach somebody the oboe without being a specialist...
_________________
Richard Sandals
NBO ~ HSSB ~ TNB

PH · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:04 am Post subject:

I'm not yet "good at it" by my own standards and I have taught people who turned out to be some of the best jazz musicians anywhere.

_________________
Bach trumpet artist-clinician
Professor of Jazz Studies, Indiana University Jacobs School of Music
Faculty Jamey Aebersold Jazz Workshops since 1976

Larry Smithee · Heavyweight Member Joined: 11 Nov 2001 Posts: 3826

Peter Bond · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:15 am Post subject:

Absolutely.
Introduce them to recordings & players and the wealth of play-along materials. Bring in local jazz players. Take them to nearby school jazz festivals. Start practicing yourself.
Learn together.

dlyren · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:32 am Post subject:

ohiotpt · Heavyweight Member Joined: 25 Jan 2008 Posts: 843

Hey gang:

Hope you don't mind me expanding this interesting conversation with a naive question

I don't understand why this should be a problem here, but I hear the same thing from my (symphonic) teacher whenever the topic of improv comes up, “that's not my area.”

Why not?

My assumption would be you have a player with a very firm grounding in music theory fundamentals.

They are highly competent in the technical skills of their instrument.

And (in Blane's case) LISTENS to a lot of jazz.

How large of a leap is it, with that huge skill set already in place, to develop competent improv chops?
_________________
-fred
Lots of horns available to try and buy (or just try) in the Albuquerque Area (Especially Kanstul trumpets) - PM if you'd like to stop by.

Billy B · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:54 am Post subject:

karlose · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:58 am Post subject:

On the flipside of this, I have had teachers who were GREAT jazzers and improvisers that COULD NOT teach their way out of a paper bag!

I think you can do it, at least teach the foundations of chords, scales, blues, etc.
_________________
Karlos A. Elizondo
San Antonio, TX

Marcinkiewicz™ Rembrandt™ "MIC GILLETTE" Model: SC3X.351L RLP Trumpet

F.E. Olds & Son "Clark Terry" Flugelhorn

"SHUT UP AND PLAY!!"

EdMann · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:36 am Post subject:

I love the pat, "no' answers, like you know this guy.

You seem to have a passion for it, which, as best I can tell as a former educator, is 90% of it. It ain't rocket science. It's fun. I'd have them make up melodies after hearing some. Do listening sessions, with real vinyl! Love to hear how you're doing with it.

ed

veery715 · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:00 am Post subject:

mbradd · Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:15 am Post subject: