Motivation... aka frustration

[tpter1]

I've been reading a book (odd, I know)... called The Art of Practicing. It's a good read for any musician. In it, the author (I can't remember her name right now) talks about frustration. I've been discussing this with my students today.

They all basically said the same things: Frustration happens when we want to do something and can't (yet). I think this is actually a good thing and a thing we need to use as motivation, not as a reason to give up. It means we care about what we are doing, that we have a goal to reach, and want to reach it.

I am not advocating frustrating kids on purpose by giving them some impossibly difficult thing to play or do, but reminding them that when they do get frustrated, and the tears start (as they sometimes do), that it is only because they care about what they are doing, have an idea of where they want to be, and are not there yet. The hard part is plotting a course to get there.

I found that very liberating.

Thoughts?
_________________
-Glenn Roberts
"Character is the backbone of human culture, and music is the flowering of human character". -Confucious

[JRoyal]

I know where you are coming from Glenn, one thing I found helpful was a book called ‘The Rock Warrior’s Way’ by Arno Ilgner. Though I am not a rock climber, nearly all of the book is directly analogous to trumpet.

Here is one passage:

[percivalthehappyboy]

[stanton]

"Things are only impossible- until they are not". Jean-Luc Picard
_________________
Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Benge #5 Fluegel
Kanstul Besson Prototype A/Bb Pic
Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

[Nowling]

Here's my perspective as a comebacker.

There are plenty of occasions for frustration on the comeback trail, especially when you are struggling through an etude you know you smoked 25 years ago. My personal approach is that frustration has to be eliminated. This is supposed to be fun. The rock-climbing quote, I think, is spot on. When I find myself getting frustrated, I ask why I am playing this particular piece, what is it trying to show me. If it's Arban Characteristic #1, which is my particular challenge right now, and I am hammering my way through it with less and less luck, I stop and remind myself that this one is about playing effortlessly and consistently through range of the horn. It's not about beating it into submission. When that happens, it's time to put the horn down for a while and go clear my head by doing something else.

I disagree that there has to be a healthy tension between frustration and success. Frustration leads to despair and anger. I treat each challenge as an opportunity to learn something new about me. I know that's hard to convey to younger students who want to play louder, higher and faster. Each new day, the horn shows me something new. Sometimes it is "oh wow" new but often it is more subtle.

My $0.02.

Bill
_________________
Bach Strad Model 37 Bb ML (195xxx)
E3L Eb/D No-name knockoff/prototype

"Don't ask me I'm just the trumpet player."

[Craig Swartz]

The key word in all of this is "yet". I'd like to be able to do this but can't yet and am not certain I'll make or take the time to learn it if it doesn't come fairly easily, at least without major stumbling blocks that need to be moved aside.

Real motivation comes from wanting to accomplish something- a new skill, ability, art- something tangible, often something that is not easily obtainable. An outside source stimulates something within the individual that makes that person want to work towards a new goal. For some it's screwing around with a hackysack or the latest computer games, but those usually don't require the long term commitment of something like being able to play a musical instrument in public without dodging the rotten fruit, vegetables, or negative comments. As I get older I believe the dreams that many of the kids I teach are becoming less and less difficult to attain, at least in the amount of time or effort necessary to master certain skills. Either that, or they are completely and totally unrealistic for the person or the amount of effort past history has shown they will apply. (Of course people can change, but if you're a betting person you'd stick with past practices...) It seems a reward must be dangled for many, and then they'll only work and master what it takes to earn that, not much more. Probably every generation has experienced the same from their elders. My private sector colleagues report the same thing in business, however.

BTW- as for trumpet players and other musicians? It's amazing to me how many think they'll be able to enter the career of music in any genre without the aid of a good private teacher or mentor. Spend money on a horn and accessories rather than the real deal. Weird, but more and more becoming the norm. Equipment first, skills second.

Because my ghetto HS band kids are so lacking in skills, I challenged the entire group at the beginning of the second semester: Learn all 12 major scales and a chromatic over a set range for each instrument at eighth note = 66 and I'll put $100 of my own money into their personal band account with the booster club. I have an unbiased auditor to listen. Told them I'd be glad to help them with the scales. There is essentially no middle school/junior high feeder for this system after I turn the 5th graders over to them, so these kids need major work. Anyway, it's a week before the play off- guess how many have come to me to ask for help? Nada. I'll lose a couple hundred bucks, perhaps, but not more. After 38 years in this racket I'm still looking to find what actually motivates young people. Eventually I'll write a book... (My motivation...)

[Billy B]

I, like many, have wasted a lot of time being frustrated. Not having a clear and concise goal in mind was the cause of my frustration. That and not having the courage to act on that goal. Those that try and fail are infinitly happier than those who never take the initiative to go for it.
_________________
Bill Bergren
Obstacles are what appear when you take your eye off of the goal.
www.synergyjazz.org

[JRoyal]

All semantics aside, does anyone feel that this really just comes back to a 'spark' within each person that drives them to learn, grow, etc....some curiosity. Something that seems to be missing in most people( students and adults), it might actually be a rare trait but maybe we take it for granted since most of use obviously have "it".

[HornofPlenty]

Hi Craig,

I can relate and so can Byron Stripling. I recently went to a clinic by Byron Stripling, lots of middle school and high school students in attendance and some adults. Everyone had their trumpets out. He said there were three things you had to play for him to become his student. I remember one was everything Louis Armstrong did on the trumpet(first part and last part) on West End Blues(you don't have to sing), second was an Orchestral excerpt, and I can't remember the third one at all. I had some friends there, so hopefully I will find out the second and third one.

He said if anyone could play all three perfectly he would teach them for free.
He also said he was not putting those requirements in to be a snob, but to be sure the student was dedicated and serious about his/her studies.

He said he has made the offer for over 20 years and nobody has ever even tried to take him up on it. Not one person. I want to get all three songs, who knows I may try and work them up, just for the sake of being the one person that tried! No music is allowed and you have to play it in front of him...no Cd's or tapes.

He also told the students that if they sent tapes of themselves playing the exercises he listed(no I didn't write those down either), there were like two or three and they weren't that hard, that he would come back for free and give another masterclass if he got enough tapes/Cd's and he said but I know it won't happen. Never does. He said trumpet players talk, talk, talk...he said we are very good at talking...he said it is a different story when it comes to doing.

In fairness to myself, I had nothing to write on and was writing on my leg, then I gave up and asked a friend that had something to write on if I could borrow their notes sometime!

Also, read a local article about him that was kind of funny. He said he has a few house rules.....HE WAS NEVER PLAYING WITH A MUTE in his trumpet at home and when he went into his "practice room" at home, somebody better be dying if they disturbed him.

Finally, I fear I have made Mr. Stripling out to be a downer type guy. Not true at all. Very inspiring and makes you think about things and he challenges you. He also has a great sense of humor!

Anyone out there know the second and third song? I will write to him if nobody knows.

[jengstrom]

Craig's post hit home for me.

Years ago, I used to live, eat, and breathe aviation. I talked about it with anybody who would listen. Almost everybody I talked to said, "Wow! that's great! I've always wanted to learn to fly." But noboby ever did it.

Flying is a HUGE commitment in both time and money. Interestingly, money was rarely the reason people didn't learn to fly. It was real easy to plop the money down and squeeze the throttle on a snowmobile, or car, or jet ski. But spend the time and energy actually learning something that might be hard, requiring study and practice? No way.

Trumpet is the same. I know lots of guys that want to play like Maynard. Some of them even come close. But very, very few practice regularly or at all. None take lessons. None study and few even read forums like this.

We reap what we sow. And there is always the chance of failure.

Remember, to be successful, we

1. Dream
2. Believe
3. COMMIT
4. Achieve

Just sayin'...

-John

[stanton]

Craig brings up many very profound points...

[robertgrier]

In my private studio my students learn that" I can't do this" isn't allowed. I haen't learn to do this yet is allowed. I tell them they CAN learn to play and I will help them every step of the way. Of course I'm careful to give them material that is something they can learn to play. Not some thing that will just frustrate them without showing improvement.
_________________
Bob Grier
An Old Pro
Web Cam lessons for trumpet and jazz improvisation
www.bobgriermusic.com
bgrierjr@triad.rr.com

[percivalthehappyboy]

More thoughts, in no particular order.

I've heard people say things like "I want to learn a foreign language." What they really mean is "I want to know a foreign language." They'd rather not have to learn it.

My brother once told an art teacher that he can't draw. The teacher said "Who told you that?"

Speaking of kids today, teachers have been complaining about the declining quality of research reports. Kids rely on the first few papers they find in Google, they look for quotes to copy and paste (with attributions, I hope), they rely on low-quality sources, they don't take notes but rather print out full-text articles and then don't read and assimilate them. Some blame a general internet-enabled culture of instant results, declining deep reading (e.g. real books), and constant "multitasking" and distractions.

I see a lot of people talking about the kids' motivation. But I think the point I made earlier is critical: the kids not only have to want to do it, they have to think they CAN do it. This applies to people doing things in general, and I don't see how kids can be exempt.

A result from management theory that I think generalizes: If you give workers more work to do, they'll work harder to keep up. To a point. But when it becomes apparent to them that they can't possibly keep up no matter how hard they try, they'll stop trying. They'll keep working, but not with any special sense of urgency, because... what's the point? This might apply to an understaffed retail operation during Christmas season. And it might apply to students who show up to band practice but just don't seem to be putting much into it. They have to think that it matters whether they practice or not. And the teacher can have something to do with that.

[tpter1]

These are all great thoughts and very interesting to read.

I tell my kids "there is no I can't. Say I can't yet"- just like an earlier poster mentioned.

My main point was that frustration, when properly understood and used, is not necessarily a bad thing. It is when it causes anger or resentment, but I think that too often those emotions arise too easily. Getting into why could be a whole different topic... but this is not a psychology forum...

I think we can take this to heart ourselves as musicians as well. Often, I know that an improvement is coming in my playing when I feel like I'm hitting a wall or become dissatisfied with what I'm hearing. That tells me that my concept is growing, and my playing is not there. Yet. I get frustrated because I don't hear coming out of my bell what I hear in my head. I think many students deal with this same thing-and need to know it's not bad when they do.
_________________
-Glenn Roberts
"Character is the backbone of human culture, and music is the flowering of human character". -Confucious

[MikeyMike]

Like the sig says....
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By the way, on this corner right here, I stabbed a bum.

[stanton]

[Ed Lee]

Methinks a summary conclusion to playing a trumpet, or any instrument well, proceeds at a snail's pace with lots and lots of repetition aka practice. That said, I've no expectation of placing more than 50% of those who begin in the 5th grade into a high school band and fewer than 10% of such a high school band going on to study instrumental music in college. Thus, I can't argue the extreme risk of a parent's financial investment in their child's musical interest ... but I do compare it to being nearly equal to the sum total of all the other toys they have purchased for them and the child has cast aside as they grow older. The one factor that differs is when the child who studied an instrument becomes an adult, the appreciation of music lasts the remainder of their lives whether they've continued playing or not ... and to me that is priceless and worth my effort.

I'm not saying I now play well, as I'd still like to be able to play better, but I enjoy what I can play and I don't believe anyone faults my appreciation of music. I'm just encountering a storage problem since we've downsized to hold my collection of equipment and music.

[richardwy]

[Craig Swartz]

[richardwy]