Besson New Standard or Boosey & Hawkes Imperial?

[MacMichael]

I have got a question on British vintage cornets:

Besson New Standard or Boosey & Hawkes Imperial:

Which of the two is the more desirable and recommendable one, given that they are in pretty much the same condition?

[FrankM]

Both were top quality instruments played by the top bands in the early post war period. Beware high pitch which hadn't been abandoned in the late 1940's. Besson were always the most prestigeous name but I doubt if that lifts the value/desirability above an Imp at todays values. Neither commands a huge price today. If the New Standard has got the microbore valves I'd take that over the Imp.

Cheers, Frank

[Bob Stevenson]

...What Frank said...

....There's not much to choose between them musically,...both were used as military instruments so build is strong and musical cpability is average..."good enough for government work" as the British Army says!

The 'Imp' was a big military contract during the early-mid 1970's and most seen are from this date.......These were in fact made by the Besson factory before it's closure by B&H in 1974/5 These were sold off around the time of the millenium, notably from the Royal Marines Band Service. The 'Imp' was the basic instrument used in layout and parts to design the first model small bore 'Sovereign', and the similarity is clear when both are side by side.

The 'New Standard' was also made for a long time and, as Frank points out, can be in HP. Note also that it is found with separate mpc shank in the old time style and this determines an old-fashioned sound to a large degree. Bye and large it's better to go for a fixed leadpipe model,...mpc fit is the same and is the early, smaller taper as found on the old 'peashooter' cornets dating back to Victorian times. To get optimum fit use a Denis Wick made before 1980 of reduce the taper of later mpcs so that they fit properly and mpc and leadpipe tapers are continuous.

Lastly, don't pay too much for these as they are of very limited use to modern bands being more or less 'relics' now.....even if well made.

[MacMichael]

Well, I am a bit astonished to read about those instruments as for military use. I thought they were or rather have been quite fashionable in British brass bands?
Here is what I found at TM:

[Bob Stevenson]

Yes, they were both used by brass bands in the UK, but not recently,......I was in a band that bought a brand new band set of 'New Standard' instruments in 1973 when the whole set was £10,500.....

.....However, take a look at both cornets and you will see that those made towards the last 10 years of production, and longer in the case of 'NS', are very heavily built as they were intended to mainly fulfill military orders, which they did, although B&H were always more successful as military instruments than were Besson due to military aquisition policies.

[MacMichael]

I see, thanks for the enlightenment, Bob!

Well, as I am in London next week my plan is still
to check out one of those New Standards even if they might be
somewhat old standards from today´s point of view.

There appears to be an abundance of those cornets on
the British secondhand market.
Well, it is that mellow BBB-style cornet tone I am after.
Unfortunately I do not have that much money to burn,
which is why I thought the Besson model from the 1970s
could be a fairly decent option.

And besides such a cornet would add up nicely
to my two British vintage trumpets.

[MacMichael]

I would also like to know what the difference is between a

Besson New Standard

and

Besson New Standard Class A

Is there a difference in in quality - if any?
Or are these just names of series from different years?
BTW the one I am after dates from 1975, according to the B&H serial number list, so it should be one of those last "real" Besson cornets Bob has mentioned.

[MacMichael]

Sorry to write three posts in a row, which looks stupid.

I just have purchased one of those Besson New Standards,
and I do wonder about two things:

Firstly, the slides all bear the number "76" - was that usual?

Secondly, the serial number 56xxx appears to have been had-engraved.
Was that a normal practice?
Probably the cornet was replated, so that it required a new engraving of the serial no.?
The only thing I do know is that this nice little fella is no fake Besson, a London repair tech confirmed that it must be from around the mid-1970s.

Any input here is highly appreciated.

BTW the cornet blows very fine and open, a mellowtone with an old Denis Wick 4B. Despite some minor pitting, the valves stil run smoothly.

[Bob Stevenson]

Does it have B&H (microbor) valves with black plastic guide rings, or enclosed Besson valves?

Does '76' coincide with part of the serial number?

[MacMichael]

[FrankM]

'Class A' is what it sounds like, ie top of the range. I believe it was dropped from the title when Boosey & Hawkes took over. My New Creation trumpet is stamped Class A and is definately top of the range and pre B&H. It does not have the later microbore valves.

[MacMichael]

Aha, so even if it does not say class A on the bell and it does have the microbor valves?
Well, probably the cornet is really from that transition period, maybe 1976?
Anyway, it is a really nice one for sure.
Thanks for the input, Frank.

[Dale Proctor]

Does anyone know what features make a Besson a "Class A" instrument? How is a "Class A" cornet different from a "Class B" one?
_________________
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Brass Band of Huntsville
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