Bach Strad 37 Bells

Comeback · Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:36 pm Post subject: Bach Strad 37 Bells

Th'rs,

Was just fooling around on ebay (seldom a good thing!) and saw this horn:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Bach-Stradivarius-Model-37-Professional-Gold-Lacquered-Trumpet-EXC-201460-/390396889866?pt=Brass_Instruments&hash=item5ae577cb0a

This one sort of looks to me like it has a two-piece bell. Do some Strads have two-piece bells? Really don't know much about them.

Jim
_________________
Bb Trumpets: 2000 Bach Stradivarius 180S37, 1972 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
Bb Cornet: 2008 Blessing XL-CR Shepherd's Crook
Flugelhorn: 1990 Blessing Artist

jocar37 · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 4:53 am Post subject:

Funny you should ask about Bach bells. I've seen references to different size bells, so I just happened to be on the Bach website before I saw your post and found this:
www.bachbrass.com/pdf/Trumpets_Spec_Chart.pdf

It shows "One-piece, hand hammered" bells in either yellow or gold brass. I didn't see a reference to a two-piece bell. But there's a lot of info on the website and I could have missed something. Also, this would seem to relate to current models. It may be that they only make one-piece bells now, but made two-piece bells in the past. I'm sure others on TH will know.

What interests me even more was the diversity of bell sizes:
www.bachbrass.com/pdf/Trumpet_Bore_Bell_Mouthpipe.pdf

I happen to like a dark sound. Can anyone give me an idea of what the differences are between a 72 and a 65 bell? I have no idea what a "Teutonic" sound is supposed to mean.
_________________
1945 Martin Committee
1939 Martin Handcraft Committee
1963 Olds Recording
1947 Olds Super Recording
1906 F. Besson flugel
Taylor Phatboy flugel
Getzen 3850 cornet

gjarrell · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:15 am Post subject:

I've never seen or heard of anything but one piece bells on Strads. That was one of VB's biggest selling points.

rockford · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:41 am Post subject: Re: Bach Strad 37 Bells

Comeback · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:45 am Post subject: Model 37 Lightweight

jocar37 and gjarrell,

Thank you for your input. I believe I have learned that the 37 that piqued my interest is a lightweight (denoted by the star on the bell). I have seen nothing in my limited research that would suggest that the horn has anything other than a one-piece bell. One of the photos in the ebay listing is curious, though. It certainly looks like the line I see on my two-piece bell instruments, and it is in the same general location.

Jim
_________________
Bb Trumpets: 2000 Bach Stradivarius 180S37, 1972 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
Bb Cornet: 2008 Blessing XL-CR Shepherd's Crook
Flugelhorn: 1990 Blessing Artist

DavesTrumpet · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:16 am Post subject:

Dang. I'm scratching my head on this one. After downloading a few pictures that show the bell I'm thinking it has some kind of chemical burn, that the horn might have been placed on its bell in a pan or something with either a chemical cleaning agent or stripper. The lacquer is just too funky looking from that line on down. Maybe it was stripped and the bell flare repaired? Who knows! And.. if you look at the last picture of the bell, where it's looking directly into the bell, you can see the bell seam all the way to the end of the bead. It's quite visible. Two-piece bells don't have this. Anyway, I'd stay far away from this horn for this price. I wonder if the main tuning slide crook doesn't have a little bit of red rot starting too.
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Comeback · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:08 am Post subject: Observations

Dave wrote:

yourbrass · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:42 am Post subject:

"Maybe it was stripped and the bell flare repaired?"

That would be my guess as well. Bell could have been damaged, then reshaped, sanded, buffed, relacquered. Because it's 35 years old, I'd stay away from it, especially as it's a lightweight. If you drop it again, you'll find out what the previous damage looked like, as it will fold along the same lines.

oxleyk · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 7:53 am Post subject:

I've seen that kind of crease when it was dropped squarely on the bell. It was a brand new Strad in a music store. I picked it up to try it out and noticed the crease. Some kid probably dropped it on the carpeted floor.

Kent

DavesTrumpet · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:05 am Post subject:

Brian Moon · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:39 am Post subject:

The biggest problem with this horn is that the seller claims" excellent cosmetic condition" when it is obviously not.

What else is the seller willing to lie about?
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Wes Clarke · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:32 am Post subject:

The horn comes with a nice Bach cornet mouthpiece, though.
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Comeback · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 10:45 am Post subject: Red Flags

Wes wrote:

JonathanM · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject:

Jim; I think the nicest playing 37 I ever had was a 37*. It's one horn I sold that I wish I still had. It was just a bit more 'lively' that the usual 37 bell.
_________________
Jonathan Milam
Bb Stradivarius 37, Olds Super
Olds Special Cornet
King Trombone
Yamaha Flute
Yamaha MO8 Keyboard

Mouthpieces: Marcinkiewicz, Curry, Kanstul, Bach

jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 743

clearly a 1-pc bell in this photo...
also, I would expect a 1977 horn to have a 2-pc nickel valve block. This one seems to be a brass 1-pc casing.

Brad361 · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject:

trumpetera · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject:

FWIW, I have a LT 37 from 1972.

One of-if not the- best 37 Bach I've played. Used to belong to Chuck Findley way back when (according to previous owners and legends!)

It's silver plated, but the silver is worn through at the normal contact points on the valve cluster showing that there's no nickel silver on the upper parts.

I highly doubt that the bell in question is a 2-piece, there just have to be something weird with the laquer. Could be a hell of a player!! Mine is....
_________________
Bach LT 37 Bb (Mr. Findleys old)
Bach Mt Vernon 1957 Bb
Bach NY ML 1943 vintage Bb
Bach 239 C, late 70's with original "Corporation" bell (!)
Malone/ Bach /Lechner C (put together)
H.Ganter Bb
Schagerl Wienna (older model) C
Parker Natural

forrest · Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject:

I believe lightweight horns had all brass clusters, not brass/nickel.

jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 743

CornetKent · Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:27 pm Post subject:

My 1946 Bach Strad has an original two piece 37 H lightweight bell. (The "H" did not stand for "heavy" back then) It has more pink colored brass up to the point just before the bell flair and a more yellow colored brass in the bell flair itself. Roy Hempley, the Bachologist, borrowed and researched my horn, sent me a complete study with photo's and a copy of the shop card written in, what he said was, Vincent Bach's hand writing. He also said that he knows of, and has the shop card for, one other New York Strad trumpet with a 37 H two piece bell.

I have been told that Bach was doing a lot of expermentation in the Bronx factory, just after the war, and made some very unusual Bach Strad trumpets at the time.

I have before and after the Charlie Melk restoration, pictures that clearly show the two piece bell and would be happy to share if anyone is interested. (I actually have to learn how to post pictures though)

_________________
1946 New York Bronx Bach Strad
1947 Conn 12B Coprion
1957 Conn 10B Coprion
1962 Conn 9A cornet Coprion
1964 King Silver Sonic cornet Sterling
1973 Getzen Eterna Severinsen Model
1992 Bach Strad 37 lightweight bell