Help Me Understand the Community Band Environment

HornnOOb

I've become weary of the qirky personality types that I have encountered in both the community band I play in as well the jazz ensemble I'm involved with.

Is it me, or does it seem that community bands attract a disporportionate number of B-Typical personaity types. Although a narrow majority of the folks in my particular community band seem quite normal, there does seem to be a high ratio of folks who are marching to a diferent drummer.

Some examples: One trumpet player who sits 2 chairs down from me talks non-stop throughout the reherseal. He talks to the guy next to him and as a result, they both typically miss their parts.

The guy to the right of me is chronically moody, and one or two of the drummers are openly rude / hostile. We had an issue of the bass drum being positioned too close to the back of our heads, hurting our ears -- when there was plenty of room available to move the bass drum further away -- and the band director thoroughly ageed that all the drums needed to be moved further back. This resulted in open hostility directed at me personally by one of the percussionist. He called me a "whinner" because I politely asked him to move the bass drum further than 12 inches from the back of my head.

Here's the capper! I brought my new cornet to practice one night and I noticed the 1st chair trumpet looking at it from a distance. During the break, I was out in the hall chatting with somone, and the first trumpet guy tapped me on the shouder and said "I picked-up your cornet to check it out, but I didn't play it." I said OK. After the breaK, I went to play my cornet, and to my shock and horror, the inside of the mouthpiece tasted strongly of chewing gum and I don't chew gum. (Months later in a completely different context, the sam guy, complimented me on how nice my cornet played when he tried it.) He obviously forgot that he tried it without my permission and worse, he used my mouthpiece.

) Who does that?

Is this stuff typical with most community bands? Any way, I quit because all this krap was making it a generally un-enjoyable experience.

I am also panning on quitting the jazz ensemble I'm in for similar reasons -- mostly relating to the director.

Is what I've described unusual in your experience or does it sound typical of other community bands?
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Crazy Finn · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:10 am Post subject:

Community Bands are made up of a broad cross section of people in... the community.

Since there are lots of jerks, morons, idiots, whiners, ego-maniacs, tools, fools in a community, is it any surprise that there some in a community band?

I haven't that many problems in the community groups I played with. No one picked up, let alone played my horn without asking. I wouldn't put up with that crap. That stuff is unacceptable.

Talking? Sure. Constant talking? No. Mediocre playing? Par for the course.
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Brad361 · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:40 am Post subject:

jiarby · Heavyweight Member Joined: 08 Jul 2011 Posts: 743

We have had a problem with the xylophone and bells being directly behind our heads (trumpets) and being pounded on with brass mallets.

We just ask them to move back a few feet... and I bring foam earplugs in case it gets bad.

The attitudes are great in the bands I have played in...

except for one time:
In a summer reading big band the tenured lead player expressed some displeasure with my presence in the band although he was pleasant to me in person. I guess he thought I wanted to play lead (though I never asked to... always playing whatever they handed me as well as I could).

Dave Bacon's band has great chemistry with the personel and they have been very patient with me in my comeback and great to be with. Completely the opposite of the other band across town (mentioned above)

KingSilverSonic · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:13 am Post subject:

I've have encountered some situations that caused me to take a break from the community band scene for a while, then return, and now am considering taking another break from playing. Although this may be akin to cutting off my nose to spite my face as the band will keep ones' chops in shape. I have also been told by those I respect to just get over it. The first incident happened about 6-7 years ago when I was a come-back player. I was playing 3rd but the librarian had put a first part of a Shostakovich piece in my folder. So, I practiced and practiced and had the part down. Then at the last rehearsal before our concert during break someone removed my part and replaced it with either a 2nd or 3rd part. I was not very happy about that to put it mildly. I have since moved up to the first parts as I played in the first trumpet section in a very good music program in college. One of the reasons I play the first part is because I can play first part. But, we have people who "insist" on playing first trumpet who cannot play the parts, and who take the solos. There have been times where the director has had to work with the soloist during rehearsal just to get the proper counting down. Once that was accomplished then the director had to work with the soloist on playing the piece correctly. Last year I sat next to a guy who constantly complained about everything. A couple of years ago there was one player who continually kept playing after the director cut us off. It was incredibly obnoxious and uncalled for. I suppose that person wanted everyone to hear the wonderful sounds that were coming out of the horn. We do not have tryouts, and I wish we did. That way everyone would be ordered in the section on the basis of performance, and there would be a recognized section leader. Still deciding on whether or not to play this coming season, and am leaning toward sitting this one out. Oh, then there was the time that one of the lead players knocked over a stand that slammed into my refurbished 1969 Burbank Benge, wrecked the 3rd valve casing and piston and was not the least bit concerned about what had happened. Thanks to Dr. Valve the horn was expertly repaired and there is no evidence of damage. And, Kudos to Steve as he repaired the horn the day he received it and had it in the mail to me that afternoon.
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murph66 · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:19 am Post subject:

We have a broad cross section of the population in our community band. We go from medical doctors to security guards and at least one deputy sheriff. Not everyone is the outgoing type, but I have met some really great people in this band. We may have one or two that rub people the wrong way, but maybe I might be rubbing someone the wrong way. We are fortunate to have a great director and also some great players, including some that play professionally. We just had one new player join that I understand is retired from the USAF Band in Washington. There are also several that have played in other service bands.

I guess we are lucky in that we have had very few conflicts between personnel. I belong to five different groups and the same can be said about all of them. I am getting rather long of tooth (74) and being able to play really good music at my age keeps me going- that and my very lovely wife of almost 50 years.

Oh- and I have played another player's horn, but only after she gave me permission. I've also had several that wanted to try my Lawler, and I've always let them.
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VetPsychWars · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:20 am Post subject:

Seeing these stories I see I have it very well indeed... but then people in Wisconsin are noted for being friendly and polite.

Everyone in our section plays a mix of parts according to their ability. I used to get all third parts (it was deserved) but now I get a lot of second parts with some first and third mixed in.

Tom
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HornnOOb · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:

kehaulani · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:46 pm Post subject:

HornnOOb - when you are out and away from the great cross-section of people in your community band and big band, what kind of groups do you hang with? Or do you? And if you do, are they also mixed or are they for the most part homogeneous?
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HornnOOb · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:38 pm Post subject:

tommy t. · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 3:03 pm Post subject:

When at home in Texas, I play in three community bands. When on my annual four month snowboarding vacation, I hunt out local playing opportunities and have often played in a community band for a few months (6 in 8 years). While I was a lawyer in the Boston area, I played in one band for 30 years and in 7 others plus two orchestras for various numbers of years.

They all have lots of different personality types and all of them had at least a few more or less serious problems.

A few lessons learned:

I haven't left an instrument unattended for decades. Never mind a careful player testing your horn, the chance of it getting knocked over or off a chair in any given rehearsal break has to be about 30%. (In Bend, OR, I saw a school band director who was playing principal trumpet switch the valves around in the trumpet of a guy who had gone to the Men's Room.)

People don't attend community band to experience drum and bugle corps type discipline -- there are always talkers. In Lufkin, TX, we have a shouter:
when the conductor asks the snare drummer to watch the tempo being given, this guy (baritone horn player) shouts out "HIT IT WHEN THE BATON COMES DOWN."

Big Band in Jackson Hole: second seat trumpet (jazz chair) simply could not improvise (or even stay in key) but took every improvised solo, appareantly because his father was a pretty good dance band trumpet in the '40s and his psychologist suggested that he deal with his sense of never measuring up to his dad by actively confronting it (in public).

I have no idea how people think about me -- I tend to argue with the conductor if I think he or she is wrong.

To a certain extent, I find this hodge-podge cross-section of the community to be invigorating. If I wanted everybody to be just like my family, I'd stay home with my family. On the other hand, I don't like it when it interferes with our final product -- music for our audience.

Most of all, I wouldn't enjoy getting into a fight over the membership. If it really isn't fun, I can always find someplace else to play. (Admittedly, at least once it was playing flugel all by myself at a newly openned, very lightly attended coffee shop about 10 miles North East of Taos, NM -- yeah, those directions are correct -- about 10 miles North East -- Arroyo Seco is the town, The Seco Pearl was the club.)

Some fine lines here.

Tommy T.
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Dale Proctor · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:03 pm Post subject:

With community bands, you can either put up with the humanity of it and play, quit and try to find a smaller group (better chance of fewer oddballs), or make the community band members afraid of you.
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RandyTX · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:34 pm Post subject:

Every CB has it's share of "personalities" I suspect. Most of which you can get used to if you spend a reasonable amount of effort to get to know them a bit better than just some dude that sits in a chair near you for a few hours a week.

Talk to them during the breaks, before or after, etc., and you will make some friends, learn of a few people you don't want to be friends with, and make some good contacts that will help you out down the road.

A couple things I do...

1. Never leave the instrument unattended on a stand, or in a chair. If I'm not nearby, it's always in the case. (I've done this one since week one of beginner band decades ago. It's the primary reason why I still have 30+ year old instruments that are in great shape today). In addition, during a break at a rehearsal, I almost always keep the mouthpiece in my hand or a pocket. This avoids the "chewing gum" scenario mentioned by the op as well, but it's mainly because I like to keep the mp warm.

2. Compliment anyone that plays well, either in a solo, or just some other exposed situation. Smile politely at anyone that attempts to do the same, but maybe doesn't pull it off too well. They know it didn't work out, you don't need to make them feel worse about it, or tell them how maybe you could do it better for them next time.

3. This is maybe the most difficult one: Accept the fact that some percentage (a large one in some cases) of the players are *only* there to get out of the house or away from somebody they don't want to spend another couple hours a week with. They won't practice their parts, even if they can't play them. They won't take the horn out of the case any other time during the week, and frankly don't really care if they do well. It's basically a musical version of "poker night" for them. You can either quit, hope they quit, or just put up with it.

4. If you live in a highly populated area, you'll quickly discover that there is a "hierarchy" of community groups in the area, playing various genres of music, and with a pretty wide variation in music and player quality. Some of which approach semi-pro caliber in the larger areas. You may be able to "trade up" to another group (or three) down the road.

5. Never burn a bridge. These people cast a wide net amongst the musicians in the area. Even if they're not a great player themselves, they may be best friends with somebody who is. Also, a lot of these people play in 3 or more groups like this every week, of various difficulties. In some cases, just to get more chop time, or to hang out with friends they have, even if they're not of the same level. You will run into them again down the road.

HornnOOb · Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject:

A lot of great responses and input. Most appreciated!

It's strangely comforting to know that my community band experience isn't totally unique.

I actually did quit the community band and rather than just not showing up, I telephone the director and explained that I would not be participating this season because there were already 9 trumpets and I joined a jazz ensemble that only had 1 trumpet and needed more. I explained that I would appreciate the opportunity to rejoin the band at a later time and that I value and appreciate the experience.

To be sure, a bit of political correctness goes a long way. (Especially since the director is Mr. music in the community.)

Now, my issue is with the director of the jazz ensemble. It seems that he forgets that we are volunteers and don't get paid enough to put up with his curt remarks.

So, I hear Arbans calling and reminding me that because I spend so much time practicing the CB or JE music, I haven't been practicing the fundamentals.
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I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen LA Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna Severinsen Model
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5075

That is just a matter of dealing with people. You have a voice,spine and a pulse use them. You can be firm and lay down the law with out being harsh. A for the drum situation I would tell you stand up or man up. You can not let someone intimidate you in a situation like this or they will do it all the time to get their way.

Their are always some thing that you take to the guy in charge and some things you have to deal with your self.

Their is nothing about being polite and well mannered that says you have to be a target or roll over and take abuse from people. Dealing with people and all the personality is what anyone that has to manage or lead has to do all the time. So if you ever plan on leading anyone you have to learn to deal with people!
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tommy t. · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:41 am Post subject:

I believe that this is the first time that I have ever been inclined to do this to a post by the Capt.

HornnOOb · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 9:52 am Post subject:

KingSilverSonic · Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:16 am Post subject:

I will second HornnOOb's comments. I was brought up in a very serious and strick Jr. High, High School, and University environment. In Jr. High and High School there was no talking, period. It was not tolerated. Anyone who was caught talking got, after rehearsal, MICKEY MOUSE spelled out on their posterior with an oak paddle - guys and gals alike. BTW - there are 11 letters for those who are counting. When playing one foot had to be properly positioned in front of the other. The horns had to be held a specific way when the director was off the stand, when he stepped onto the stand, and when we were playing. And, our high school was the best of the best. In college it was more of the same, sans the MICKEY MOUSE. In graduate school the director would permanently dismiss you from the band if you were acting like a monkey. I did not see that happen during my two years in that band but it had happened and everyone knew not to tempt fate. I go to rehearsal to rehearse and to concerts to play a concert, not to socialize or deal with the immaturity of others.
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Burbank Benge Bb
Burbank Benge C
King Silver Sonic Cornet
King Silver Sonic Symphony 20 DB
Lawler flugelhorn
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HornnOOb · Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2012 10:43 am Post subject: