Official Cool Cornet Picture Thread

tom turner · Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject:

I think a lot of mouthpieces of that period looked a lot like this . . . and a DIFFERENT type of short cornet sound for sure, vs. the "British Cornet Sound."

Also, cornets of that era didn't have the "octave key" (pinky finger hook) yet . . . that nasty thing that caused many a school kid to "grip it and rip it" trying to hit high notes.

IMHO, this caused a lot of kids to develop arm pressure . . . and soft tissue (chops), mashed flat and swelling on today's modern "comfort" rims just made even more pressure possible.

Lots of arm pressure = locking the chops down (killing lip trills) + poor endurance + ever-swelling chops that eventually deteriorated in a performance into playing notes that won't even speak.

BACK IN THE DAY . . . if you were playing a thin-rimmed "cookie" the mouthpiece "taught" you very quickly to avoid arm pressure . . . or die! LOL

"Cookie Cutters" are great "teachers" that keep you honest!!!

Tom
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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

Kofipoiss · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 1:06 am Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:23 am Post subject:

I've been using a "cookie cutter" on the old 1907 Besson cornet I recently bought. The horn plays beautifully with it, after you get the technique down. The horn and mouthpiece combo has a sweet, gentle sound to it. I found this mouthpiece on eBay...many different ones appear there for sale, but you have to be careful with the shank size - the diameters (and tapers) are all over the place.

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Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

ChopsGone · Heavyweight Member Joined: 20 Dec 2008 Posts: 1377

tom turner · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:30 am Post subject:

Hi,

Alas, I suspect the only way to find them is either lurking on ebay or locating a vintage mouthpiece collector (I suspect there are a few around) who would part with one.

NOW THE BAD NEWS . . .

Those instruments and mouthpieces were made during the peak of the brass band fad/phase of American music. 100 years ago these were cutting edge new instruments that really took hold with the invention of the type of valves we take for granted now.

Thus, every kid wanted to play in the newly created bands . . . the new school bands, or their town's community band or a band created by a COMPANY . . . and there were competitions for bands and soloists alike all over the place! Never in history have such a large percentage of kids and adults taken to brass instruments!!!

This meant that a lot of instruments were crafted and sold, here and from overseas . . . by a staggering amount of makers! Same with mouthpieces for them . . . and a lot of them looks extremely similar.

ALSO, THERE WERE A LOT OF DIFFERENT MOUTHPIECES MADE BY THE SAME MAKERS . . .
Just like today, people wanted different sizes in order to play their best, and there was no numbering system on most of them.

MY FIRST BOSTON CAME WITH TWO BOSTON MOUTHPIECES . . .
One felt incredible, and the other one wasn't for me. So, I did something incredibly stupid. Not realizing that the "good" (for me) Boston mouthpiece would win me over to using the "cookie" . . . I traded the second Boston to seller/vintage horn restorer Rich Ita for a modern-type mouthpiece made by Reynolds for another cornet I had.

A few days later I called Rich to buy the second Boston mouthpiece back . . . so I'd be able to complete my original "kit" again (case with all accessories, etc.). Sadly, another collector had quickly bought it.

MODERN MOUTHPIECE MAKERS OF VINTAGE MOUTHPIECES . . .
I've played most of the versions from these two makers . . .

The first is Mark Curry - He makes a vintage cornet line, based on the way early AMERICAN cornets sounded. Thus, the cups are pretty deep and pretty funnel-shaped. His rims are based on Bach Mt. Vernon rim contours.

All the Curry vintage cornet mouthpieces sound really nice, with a fine, sweet and mellow sound.

The second is Flip Oakes - He had Mark Curry make these for him, but to his own preferences and specs. They also use the Mt. Vernon rims. Sadly, and unlike many people, my chops have always rebelled against Bach-shaped rims.

Flip and I both have this same philosophy . . . that if the player has developed chops and plays properly, that range need not be affected at all with radically deep (by today's standards) cups/funnels! Thus, Flip's designs are aimed at the developed player market . . . which is refreshing!

Thus, his cup contours are non-compromise designs that aim to get the original sound profiles . . . but using modern rims that are more comfortable and familiar.

He's not trying to sell a lot of mouthpieces commercially and thing about this . . . how many times have we, as kids, gone into music stores and tried tons of mouthpieces trying to make range "easier" or improve our sound magically.

Thus, when I played his and the Curry "pieces" at the same time, I much preferred the sound of Flip's various sizes, for they were designed first and foremost to try to get the vintage cornet sound that he felt was most important.

If you have mature chops now, and if you desire the perfect "sound" I'd recommend trying Flip's line in your favorite Bach rim size. You just might find it perfect for you! There's no compromise in them

Hope this helps!

Tom
_________________
Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

tom turner · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:33 am Post subject:

Dale Proctor · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:04 pm Post subject:

As for the octave key, it's been around a long time. Most of the instruments from before the Civil War that I've played have them, too. Even keyed bugles and ophicleides from the dawn of chromatic brass instruments had them, but they were more a necessity for holding on to the horn in that case. Look at the round pinky ring on this 1850's over-the-shoulder cornet.

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Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

tom turner · Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:02 pm Post subject:

Playing an OTS cornet ain't no fun . . . you can't punish the TROMBONES!

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Tom Turner
Flip Oakes "Wild Thing" instruments (Trumpet, Short Cornet & Fluglehorn) +
Filp Oakes C Trumpet & Flip Oakes "Celebration" Bb Trumpet

weezintrumpeteer · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:14 am Post subject:

Let's get this started again

Olds Super Recording:

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'70's Getzen Eterna Cornet
'70 Selmer Radial
'47 Martin Committee Deluxe #3
Triebert Moderne Flugel

mx5oldguy · New Member Joined: 28 Aug 2011 Posts: 4 Location: WMASS

I absolutely love playing this 1900 Heald Cornet made in Springfield, MA. I have several vintage "cookie cutter" mouthpieces that never really worked for me. On a whim, I purchased a used Yamaha 11E4 on Ebay and the Heald Cornet world was opened up to me!

In small group jazz settings I use this horn exclusively.

Dale Proctor · Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:03 am Post subject:

That Heald is a beautiful instrument. You know, those have a rep as one of the best cornets ever made. Do you concur?
_________________
Olde Towne Brass
www.otbrass.com

Brass Band of Huntsville
www.brassbandofhuntsville.com

"Brass bands are all very well in their place - outdoors and several miles away ." - Sir Thomas Beecham

mx5oldguy · New Member Joined: 28 Aug 2011 Posts: 4 Location: WMASS

I'd like to think so

I do not have much experience playing other cornets so I cannot speak to any comparisons with other horns. I can tell you that for me this instrument can be played with equal facility at extremely soft and extremely loud volumes, is very flexible, yet slots very well....it is just an absolute pleasure to play and that is all I can ultimately say.

Dave

olivertrumpet · Last edited by olivertrumpet on Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:37 am; edited 1 time in total

This is a really neat thread; many neat instruments here. I had this cornet restored for the most part, and it plays okay. I believe there are some possible air leaks in the valves somewhere though, so it doesn't play to its full potential. I am trying to find out more about the instrument, and if it is possible to get it repaired to where it will play as it should. If anyone has any suggestions or info for me, i would love to hear it....i'm trying to figure out how to post a dang pic of it. I will figure it out shortly.

The Bell inscription is as follows:
40 Medals of Honor
F BESSON
"Prototype"
198 Euston Road
London
*
C Fischer

Thanks!

Will Oliver
file:///Users/Will/Desktop/IMG_0978.JPG[/img]
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Will Oliver
Harrelson Summit is my Trumpet

richardwy · Posted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 7:35 am Post subject:

Gorgeous horns
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Richard Oliver
Bach AB190
Schilke B1
Bach C180L 239 25H
Bach 3's: 3, B, & C
Getzen Capri Cornet
Curry 3BBC
Wick 4

Greenleaf · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 428

1918 16A Slide Cornet

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Axelip · Veteran Member Joined: 07 Nov 2009 Posts: 115

You're all set for Vaudeville, Greenleaf. Quack!!

Greenleaf · Veteran Member Joined: 26 Jan 2010 Posts: 428

Yeah, 'ceptin' I'd have tuh learn tuh play it first.
(I don't do a bad concert Bb scale, but I don't think it'll get me any gigs)
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Dale Proctor

olivertrumpet

Hello Dale,

I believe the serial number is 41449, and on each valve in order of 1, 2, 3 are the numbers 13, 14, and 15. I am using a Mac. do you know how to post a pic on here? I"ve never not had the ability to post a pic before.

Thanks! ....Will
[/img]
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Will Oliver
Harrelson Summit is my Trumpet

RandyTX · Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 8:10 am Post subject:

You don't post the pics here, TH doesn't store them. You have to host them somewhere else, and just put an img tag in pointing to the remote site that contains the actual picture(s).