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I love trumpet Connstellation 38B !!!


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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:11 am    Post subject: I love trumpet Connstellation 38B !!! Reply with quote

Conn 38B on I played the whole year. Of course, the tool is not new, but I really like . I mostly play in the big band and chamber orchestra, brass band , and sometimes brass quintet. This tube is very well accepted in the auditorium. Of course, not without my participation. This is very interesting , as well as other players Conn 38B to use this wonderful tool ? What are the mouthpieces are used? What music is played ? I'm very interested in this. Thanks to all who wrote ! Best wishes, Sergey Bondarev.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Sergey. I am happy you have found a trumpet that you enjoy very much and that you can use in different kinds of groups.

I played a Connstellation in high school and university music school and it was a wonderful instrument. At that time (late 1950s - mid 1960s) there were a number of excellent professional American musicians who played them. Now that I look back on it, I think that the best tone I ever had on trumpet (full and somewhat dark, but with the ability to brighten when necessary) was when I had my Connstellation. Cheers!
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Turkle
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 38B was my main trumpet for years. I used a Bach 3C and Yamaha 14a4a with it. I don't play mine much anymore, but we have some memories together!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you very much friends for your opinion! I really appreciate your opinion ! Now most favorite trumpet players is a dark tone of sound. I sound a bit brighter. It gives a wonderful contrast between playing in a band and solo playing. Sometimes I change mouthpieces for the new colors of sound. Of course, that's what I 'm not the first ... but I want to talk about the unusual properties of the trumpet .
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lgt0412
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 38B is classic. Mine is not my main horn but were someone to force me to choose only one horn to play on the rest of my life, the Connstellation would be a hard choice not to make!!

Greg

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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kehaulani, Turkle 's, lgt0412 thanks friends for your kind messages! I think this is the best trumpet in my life! Really true. Of course these tools, I say, has not made today ... Playing on another new trumpet is always listening and looking for its tone and paint. From all that I have in my life better Connstelation 38B. So I play on my favorite trumpet every day!
I'm wondering what my fellow mouthpieces are used in this tube. These reviews are very important for me ...[/b]
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sergeybondarev wrote:
kehaulani, Turkle 's, lgt0412 thanks friends for your kind messages! I think this is the best trumpet in my life! Really true. Of course these tools, I say, has not made today ... Playing on another new trumpet is always listening and looking for its tone and paint. From all that I have in my life better Connstelation 38B. So I play on my favorite trumpet every day!
I'm wondering what my fellow mouthpieces are used in this tube. These reviews are very important for me ...[/b]


Hi Sergey

Welcome to Trumpet Herald!

I love my 1968 Connstellation 38B too! Lately I've been using a Curry 3C. with it. Here is what it sounds like: http://youtu.be/qI69OwSG8QI I love the sound of this horn. It has a sound all its own!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you , David!
Gorgeous solo! The deep sound and deep thought on this pipe. It is simply unique! Congratulations my dear fellow !
I see that the mouthpiece is not included ... How is this reflected in the game ?
Here is my version on the mouthpiece DW 4C - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9pyYSvJf8A

Regards,
Sergey
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my version on the mouthpiece DW 3E ... Paint another sound ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDy7EP25fTQ
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I love trumpet Connstellation 38B !!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4LDd6P4xGg
DW 4C
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sergeybondarev wrote:
Thank you , David!
Gorgeous solo! The deep sound and deep thought on this pipe. It is simply unique! Congratulations my dear fellow !
I see that the mouthpiece is not included ... How is this reflected in the game ?
Here is my version on the mouthpiece DW 4C - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9pyYSvJf8A

Regards,
Sergey


Thank you, Sergey! The mouthpiece I am using is a Curry 3C.

You sound GREAT on your Connstellation on these youtube videos! Bravo!! Thanks for sharing!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to my colleagues for your participation !

Conn 38B Connstellation (Late Model)



Date: 1958. Owner unknown, picture courtesy of Al Gottesman at Lauderdale Wind Inc.

There has been some confusion over the fact that Connstellations from different years look a bit different. So I have decided to "split" the 38B Connstellation into a page for "Early Model" and "Late Model" as I have done with some of the other models. The Connstellation pictured here is the "Late Model". The difference with the early model is mainly in the design of the leadpipe and the engraving on the leadpipe. As for the engraving on the leadpipe, the "Early Model" 38B Connstellations have "Connstellation "B" engraved on the leadpipe in addition to the "Connstellation" engraving on the bell. The late models only have "B" stamped on the leadpipe.

The Connstellation 38B is nickel plated with brass trim and has a large 5 1/8" bell. It has a #1 bore (0.438"), and was produced from 1956 to at least 1979.

There are several variants of Connstellation 38B. The 1956 and 1957 versions used a style of valve cap that was specific to those years. It is a felt-less top valve cap. From 1958 (as pictured here) Conn switched all trumpets and cornets to a style of valve cap with the felt on the top valve caps itself. These valve caps are either nickel-silver plated or lacquered brass. I suspect that from late 1959 (serial numbers 800,000 and above?) the rule was to equip nickel plated, nickel silver and silver plated instruments with lacquered brass valve caps, and lacquered brass and coprion instruments with the nickel-silver valve caps. As you can see the instrument pictured here has nickel silver valve caps; the serial is in the 7xx,xxx's.

The issue of whether Connstellations have a Coprion bell has been discussed here in the past and different theories exist. In August/September 2009 I received information and then, by chance, strong evidence that has caused me to change my views on this again.

A former Conn employee said, and this appears to be confirmed by the 1960's Conn Product Manual and other reports, that Electro-D is a similar process to Coprion using non-copper metals. The former Conn employee said that an Electro-D bell was a brass bell, electrolytically plated with copper, and then electrolytically plated with nickel. These descriptions seem to match with each other and the evidence. This causes the Connstellation serial numbers to come in as follows (my educated guess):

Serials (5xx,xxx - ) 6xx,xxx: "Electro-D" bell (see above), Brass leadpipe (multi-piece). "Early Model" Connstellation.
Serials 7xx,xxx - Rxx,xxx: "Electro-D" bell (see above), Coprion leadpipe (seamless). "Late Model" Connstellation.
Serials GA3xx,xxx and higher: Brass bell, brass leadpipe (who knows). "Late Model" Connstellation.
All Connstellations up to and including those produced in 1969 have engraved on the bell "C.G.Conn LTD, Connstellation, Elkhart, USA". I haven't seen pictures of any Connstellations with serial numbers dating from 1970 or 1971 so I don't know what happened then. Connstellations built in 1972 had "C.G.Conn LTD, Connstellation, Abilene, Texas, USA" engraved on the bell. The "Abilene" disappeared quickly though and was replaced by simply "C.G.Conn LTD, Connstellation, USA". Draw your own conclusion from the quick removal of the word "Abilene".

The felt on all Connstellations, as all other Conns, is red. However, in the late 1970's Conn switched to Brown/beige. I am told by someone who owns a 1979 Connstellation that the felt on his instrument is brown/beige, and not red.

However, there are some strange 38B Connstellations out there. I happen to have owned one (and have seen pictures of others). They have brown/beige felt on the valve caps, and lack the "Elkhart" on the bell, suggesting late 1970's or later. The valve caps are lacquered brass in the style used starting in 1958. But it has a 1955 serial number (in the case of the 38B I used to own: 502321). The reason is because Conn recycled serial numbers at some point during the early 80's. My current hypothesis is that this occured during the "Henkin years" between 1980 and 1985. I have seen other Conn instruments (Euphoniums, specifically) with 1955-1957 serial numbers which the owner claims to have bought in the early 1980's. So if you see a 38B Connstellation with a serial number of 4xx,xxx, then it is definitely not 1950's (note: 38B. A 28B Connstellation would almost certainly have a 4xx,xxx serial). A 38B Connstellation with a 5xx,xxx serial is almost certainly 1980's; the 38B wasn't produced until serial 6xx,xxx (note: it could be a 28A Connstellation, but the same rules apply as to valve caps and other styling). Connstellations with serials 6xx,xxx: pay close attention to the styling details described above.

Another variation among Connstellations is the third slide stop screw. Instruments built through 1960 don't have a stop screw on the third slide. From 1961 onwards the third slide stop screw starts showing up on Connstellation models. The instrument pictured above doesn't have that stop screw, suggesting it was built before approximately 1961. Connstellations built through 1969 all appear to have an end screw and two adjustment screws on both the first and third slide stop screws. The 1978 Connstellation (and weird 38B I used to own) appear to have only the end screw.

Don't confuse the 38B with the Connstellation 28A which is actually a long cornet. It can be very difficult to tell the difference between the two. Here are the two ways I know of. The first is to find out if it takes a trumpet or cornet mouthpiece. Connstellations built during the period that the 28A Connstellation long cornet was also in production will have a letter "A" or "B" stamped on the mouthpiece receiver. The "A" indicates a cornet leadpipe (28A long cornet), the "B" indicates a trumpet leadpipe (38B). The other way is subtle distinction, but should be apparent in most pictures if you know what to look for (and it is also the reason the picture on this page was changed; the previous picture was a 28A I now realize). If you look along the leadpipe you will see the diameter of the leadpipe increase immediately after the finger hook. This extends to the main tuning slide. It is where the main tuning slide inserts into the leadpipe. On a long cornet the length of this tubing with increased diameter is only half the length, and it starts halfway between the finger hook and the main tuning slide. See picture. Also see the 28A for a picture of this (that is the picture previously on this page). This might also be a way to distinguish a "real" 38B from a 28A with a replacement leadpipe/mouthpiece receiver. The internal bore and taper (conical-ness) is quite different between the 28A and 38B, but this isn't obvious from the outside.

Interestingly, the 1955 Conn catalog lists the 28A, but doesn't yet have the 38B Connstellation. In stead it still lists the previous model, 28B Connstellation. Does this suggest that the 38B is a trumpet version of the 28A long cornet?

The 38B Connstellation is the succesor to the 28B Connstellation, which also featured the first slide trigger. The 36B lightweight Connstellation came out in late 1959. It has a smaller bell and the 38B has sturdier bracing than the 36B. This can be seen by comparing the main tuning slide brace of the 38B pictured here with the 36B picture on its own page. Early models 36B, through at least 1962 don't have a trigger on the first slide. Later models 36B (at least 1966 and later) do have the trigger on first. Otherwise the 36B and the 38B are the same including the nickel plating. This makes it somewhat difficult to tell a later model 36B and a 38B apart. The quickest way to tell the difference is to compare the bracing. The other option is to measure the size of the bell.

Apparently Conn (UMI) tried to produce 38B's again at one point but couldn't get it quite right. Going back to the original specifications and tooling wasn't an option because those had been destroyed at one point.

A professional symphony orchestra trumpet player describes his 1966 38B as follows:
General pitch is really very good; high register doesn't go up, but strangely enough the F above high C (played without valves) is a tad flat, almost beyond the possibility of bending. There is almost no "click" between G and A above high C that most other trumpets have!
Even triggering the low F is spot on pitch-wise. Just for fun I lowered the main slide to A pitch, and that works fine also..... (Has it been designed for that purpose?).
Resistance is very low when playing mf or softer, giving the impression of being a large bore trumpet.
Resistance gets gradually higher (but never too high) when playing louder. This IMO really helps the high register a lot. The high register is amazingly easy.
Slurs/intervals seem to be closer together than with any other trumpet I have ever played. A strange but nice sensation.
The valve action is smoooooth.
Every detail of this trumpet has clearly been built to last for ever. I'm sure it'll easily survive another 41 years.
Here is an interesting article on the playing characteristics of the Connstellation: Conn Connstellation 38B and 36B

What Conn said in 1958:
Advanced acoustical design places this this horn at the peak of response, control, "projected voice" and performance. First valve trigger on this trumpet offers immediate personal compensation to any musician. Electro-D bell, Micro-Finish tone chamber, Cali-Bore, Crysteel valves. These exclusive features give playing ease, fine tuning, powerful trumpet tone. Highly polished nickel plate with brass trim is protected by exclusive Lustre-Conn finish. Length 21 3/8", bell size 5 1/8". Complete with accessories in Connstellation case.

What Conn said in 1966:
Here is the large bore feel that top artists prefer. Produces six to 12 decibels more sound for the same player effort. The finest of mechanical superiority. First valve trigger. Micro-finish mouthpipe. Electro-D bell and mouthpipe. Undercut slides. Length 21". Bell 5 1/8".

This is a great tool and I love my Conn 38B !!!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you David!!! So Curry 3C ... I try to always ... Paint is a very interesting sound! A unique , I think ! Best wishes,
Sergey Bondarev.
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DavesTrumpet
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sergeybondarev wrote:
Thank you David!!! So Curry 3C ... I try to always ... Paint is a very interesting sound! A unique , I think ! Best wishes,
Sergey Bondarev.


I like your interesting choice of English words from a Russian perspective. Timofei Dokshizer referred to articulating on the trumpet as "strokes" like that of the artist's paint brush. Interesting concept!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you Daves. "strokes"...
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DavesTrumpet wrote:
I like your interesting choice of English words from a Russian perspective. Timofei Dokshizer referred to articulating on the trumpet as "strokes" !

Sergey, my last girlfriend is a Russian singer/pianist. She could land some serious "strokes" of her own. Unsuspecting me, would get home after a gig and she would spring like a snake. Before she got through, I not only saw Connstellations, I saw stars and galaxies, too!!

Russian women can be beautiful, but before they are through with you, they can paint you over with a whole new colour!
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand you ...
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sergeybondarev
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think I also prefer the old Connstellations. It does not seem standard. I do still like it!
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stevericks
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Connstellation 38b is a fabulous horn. The problem is that we have the current supply and Conn has lost the mandrels and other tooling to make them. For those interested, realize that Ziggy Kanstul (at Olds and Benge during their prominent days) makes a clone called the Kanstul 991 (and 990). The horn is fabulous. Top quality and construction. Bore sizes the same, wrap the same, bell size etc.

When I returned to playing after 20 years ( with previous career on Olds and Bach), I visited a large store that carried many pro horns of different makers. When trying the Kanstul 991, it became the horn I had to have. After a couple more years of looking, I finally picked up one.

A few months ago I had the chance to play an early Connstellation 38b side by side with a 991 (at music store). Two other good trumpet players were there giving feedback. Yes, the sound is slightly different. The Connie seemed darker, the 991 seemed brighter and a slightly wider, fuller tone. To me, and one other player that tried them, the 991 was slightly easier to play, not quite as resistant, and a little more open. Point being, they are close, but not absolutely identical. In my mind, the 991 might even be a slight improvement. Not meant in any disrespect to the Connstellation- but logically, after 40 years you would hope we have learned some things that would cause slight improvements.. Kanstul was at Benge when Benge died and purchased the company. He now makes the Chicago Kanstul -Chicago Benge copy - using same tools but with a few improvements that corrected intonation issues on the Benge.

For the right price, I'd love to own a Connstellation. For those that wish you could buy the classic horn new- it doesn't exist. But you might find a Kanstul 991 could fit the job. Again Connie is a great classic horn.
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kehaulani
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steve - a couple of quesstions.

Was the Kanstullation that you A/B'd with the Conn, nickle plated or silver plated? Kanstul offers nickle plating but I believe their "default" version is silver plated.

Regarding the construction of the Kanstul, I have read on this forum that the original bore was constructed with a certain taper that the Kanstul did not follow. Any thoughts? If so, that might account for some difference in the sound you heard.

Also, I have read here that the outer dimensions of the two horns are not the same.

Thanks for your thoughts. (And for your post above.)
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