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jazztrumpeter95
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Joined: 27 Apr 2011
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Location: Bumf**k NH
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 Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:42 pm Post subject: Good newer extra lightweight horns |
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So out of the horns I've played (not many) a lot of the really light weight ones are about pre 1950 and have kind of an older design. What are some suggestions for newer horns that are really light? Is there a lightest?
Sam |
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shofarguy
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Location: AZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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The lightest horn I'm aware of being made today is the Kanstul Chicago 1070. It is closely patterned after Claude Gordon's Besson Meha which lead to the CG Benge, but the 1070 isn't a CG model redo, per se.
Kanstul's 25th anniversary model was also very light.
Brian
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oliver king
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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I owned a Burbank 6x for a while ... it tipped the scales at 20oz I think.
The Benge 6x was 33.2oz ... the Burbank is much closer to that. Quick articulations, HUGE sound, I miss that horn sometimes.
Last edited by oliver king on Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Crazy Finn
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Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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I can't say about the physical weight, but the new Shires CLW plays like a light vintage horn and is fantastic.
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LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
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Christian K. Peters
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Joined: 12 Nov 2001
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Location: Eugene, Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 10:38 pm Post subject: good newer |
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Hello all,
Light weight horns... I think Schilke B series with the beryllium bell.
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Christian K. Peters
Schilke Player
Oregon Brass Society
Central Lutheran Brass Quintet |
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nieuwguyski
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Joined: 06 Feb 2002
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Location: Santa Cruz County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a table of trumpet weights:
http://rouses.net/trumpet/trumpet_weights.html
It isn't very scientific and doesn't include a lot of brands and/or models, but there are a few numbers to throw around.
The lightest trumpet I ever owned was a Schilke X4b that tipped the (kitchen) scale at 32 oz.
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AlanC
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Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Fri Mar 30, 2012 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Stomvi Mambo is really light. |
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Pete
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Joined: 24 Nov 2001
Posts: 1244
Location: Western Massachusetts
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 2:18 am Post subject: |
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Some lightweight horns that are around that I have owned or played:
Stomvi USA Salsa
8335LA
8310Z*
YTR-636*
YTR- 739T
YTR-6310Z
YTR-6320
YTR-6040ST
Schilke B6
LA Benge 3X+*
LA Benge CG
Bach 43 LT*
Shires C-LW*
*currently own
My question is: What are you looking for in this horn? Quicker response, brighter sound? Etc. All of the horns mentioned above are lightweight but play and sound differently.
Pete
Last edited by Pete on Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:22 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cyber_shake
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Location: Cincinnati, OH
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:18 am Post subject: |
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according to the table (link) from nieuwguyski, a Selmer Claude Gordon (gold plated on the chart) was 35 oz ... not sure what the Besson mentioned by shofarguy Brian would be, but I have a silver Selmer CG and it feels sooooo light compared to everything else I've ever played ... it is simply hard to imagine a lighter horn.
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Romeo Adaci Referenz / Adams Brass A4 Shepherd's Crook |
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so what
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Location: near Dallas
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | The lightest horn I'm aware of being made today is the Kanstul Chicago 1070. It is closely patterned after Claude Gordon's Besson Meha which lead to the CG Benge, but the 1070 isn't a CG model redo, per se.
Kanstul's 25th anniversary model was also very light.
Brian |
Yes, the 1070 is light.
I've weighed quite a few trumpets.
Kanstul 1070 in silver plate is pretty light at 956 grams (that's 33.6 oz.). Great playing trumpet, by the way.
The only other "modern" horn I've weighed is a German Sonare 800 in lacquer at 1090 grams.
The lightest trumpet I've played is my lacquered '30s Olds Super at 883 grams (31 oz.) (with 3rd ring, 1st hook and 3rd rod). Not all of the old Olds Supers are this light. Most are in the 950-1000 gram range. Somewhere in the '50s, they get a bit heavier.
A Burbank Benge 3x in lacquer is 984 grams.
A Burbank Benge 5x in gold plate is 946 grams.
An LA Benge 5x with 1st trigger in silver plate is 960 grams.
Ambassador 28971 is 978 grams.
Olds Recordings are a bit heavier at near 1100 grams.
Super Recordings are between 950 - 1000 grams, roughly.
An Eastlake Silver Flair is 1035 grams.
A Selmer K-mod is 1110 grams.
My old late '30s King Liberty with the diamond brace is 1058 grams.
These weights are all without mouthpiece, but with all other parts (e.g., rings).
I'm sure the weight is not the main reason they all play differently. Interesting to know, though.
-Mark Walberg |
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Michael Drapp
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Location: Carmel, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: good newer |
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| Christian K. Peters wrote: | Hello all,
Light weight horns... I think Schilke B series with the beryllium bell. |
Absolutely! If you can find an actual beryllium bell from the late 1960's or early 1970's (modern beryllium Schilke bells are actually 100% copper at around 7 ounces) you are in luck because these only weighed 3 ounces and would sizzle your ear off 
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Brent
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Joined: 11 Sep 2005
Posts: 527
Location: St. Paul, MN
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 5:41 pm Post subject: light weight |
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How about some of the Carol lightweight models? As I recall, Trent Austin might have some good deals on his web site.
Brent
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maynard-46
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 6:19 pm Post subject: good newer extra light horns |
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| Quote: | | Absolutely! If you can find an actual beryllium bell from the late 1960's or early 1970's (modern beryllium Schilke bells are actually 100% copper at around 7 ounces) you are in luck because these only weighed 3 ounces and would sizzle your ear off |
Have to disagree with you on this one! I played and owned numerous Schilkes from the mid '70's to early '80's with beryillium bells on them. The standard weight back then was 6-7 oz. They did make it lighter if a person requested it. Laskey told me the lightest bell they ever made was 4 oz. and that was for Faddis. Just sayin'! 
Butch |
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zackh411
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Joined: 17 May 2011
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: good newer extra light horns |
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| maynard-46 wrote: | | Quote: | | Absolutely! If you can find an actual beryllium bell from the late 1960's or early 1970's (modern beryllium Schilke bells are actually 100% copper at around 7 ounces) you are in luck because these only weighed 3 ounces and would sizzle your ear off |
Have to disagree with you on this one! I played and owned numerous Schilkes from the mid '70's to early '80's with beryillium bells on them. The standard weight back then was 6-7 oz. They did make it lighter if a person requested it. Laskey told me the lightest bell they ever made was 4 oz. and that was for Faddis. Just sayin'!
Butch |
Funny... Faddis's current gear is super heavy
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Michael Drapp
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Joined: 04 Aug 2005
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Location: Carmel, California, USA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject: Re: good newer extra light horns |
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| maynard-46 wrote: | | Quote: | | Absolutely! If you can find an actual beryllium bell from the late 1960's or early 1970's (modern beryllium Schilke bells are actually 100% copper at around 7 ounces) you are in luck because these only weighed 3 ounces and would sizzle your ear off |
Have to disagree with you on this one! I played and owned numerous Schilkes from the mid '70's to early '80's with beryillium bells on them. The standard weight back then was 6-7 oz. They did make it lighter if a person requested it. Laskey told me the lightest bell they ever made was 4 oz. and that was for Faddis. Just sayin'!
Butch |
I played on Bill Chase's horn back in 1970 or '71 and Bill claimed that it was lighter; at 3 ounces, thus it must have been lighter than John's horn? Phil at Schilke told me recently that they could go as light as 3 ounces back then, so this would tend to support Bill's allegation concerning his bell weight. Beryllium was used as a hardening agent in the alloy which allowed them to sand the bells down to this low weight. Due to the danger of breathing beryllium dust during the sanding process (sanding the bell to thin it while on a mandrel) Schilke decided to go with a lightweight pure copper bell at 7 to 8 ounces. Today, they can get this down to 6 ounces but no lighter according to Phil.
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brassjunkie
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Joined: 05 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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These are the lightweight horns I have owned and play tested
Conn Constellati0n 60B (1960's)
King Golden Flair (1970's)
Carol 5000L-YST present day
Probably the Carol would be the best of the bunch in terms of build quality, intonation, and also the lightest.
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RobS
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Joined: 28 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| My Romeo Adaci Eleganza weighs 990 grams. He also builds the Feniks trumpets. |
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MacMichael
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| brassjunkie wrote: | Carol 5000L-YST present day
Probably the Carol would be the best of the bunch in terms of build quality, intonation, and also the lightest. |
#2
I had the chance to test the Carol 5000L-YST and I can only say it is a very good trumpet anyway, be it lightweight or not, with a big and bright tone.
Really fun to play.
Last edited by MacMichael on Sun Apr 01, 2012 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Capt.Kirk
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| Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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The main reason is waste or loss. The lighter you try to make a bell for instance the greater number of manufacturing flaws or loss you will have. Wrinkles, tears, bulges, and splits happen at a greater freq. the lighter you routinely try to make the bells. On top of that durability after the sale is an issue. It is almost impossible to find an Old Getzen Deluxe Tone Balanced model that has not had to have it's bell burnished because of a wrinkle or crease etc.....Destino's and many of the original Callet horns had bell damage issues from what I hear too because of how light weight their bells where.
I know I have herd Brian state that Kanstul would not make a bell thinner then some number specifically because of manufacturing losses I think it was and damage after the sale.
Like wise some of the bell OEM's I have spoken too about bells for my own horns have said the same thing. When I asked for some ultra light weight bells they cringed especially when I started talking about a large number of them. They really did not want to do it because of how hard it is to do it in large number's with out a lot of waste. They would not mind making me one but did not want to make 100 of them.
Also I can tell you that the people I buy new production bells from charge more for a light weight bell then a heavy weight bell. NOS and used bells are a different ball of wax.
Heavy versus light comes and goes in and out of fashion. I think the weight of the horn is a terrible way to chose a horn. I think it is a good way to chose a bell for a specific effect but not a good way to chose a horn. You could have a horn with a paper thin bell but put a heavier leadpipe, receiver and main slide on it and the total weight of the horn might not indicate very accurately how it resonates or plays behind the bell at all.
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jazztrumpeter95
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Why would the schilke guys just wear masks? I mean it's not rocket science or is it? Also good point capt but for general knowledge who is OEM? |
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