Working on 2nd Playing

[Steve A]

So, we spend a lot of time here talking about general trumpet playing exercises, and a reasonable amount about the specific skills needed for good 1st playing. Sometimes, we discuss 2nd playing from a standpoint of balance, blend, ensemble playing, and all these things are great, but I'm hoping that we might get some informed opinions about how to practice some of the specific playing challenges one finds more frequently in 2nd playing, such as cold entrances on low notes, and leaps of big and non-melodic intervals.

Anyone have any ideas about particular ways to improve definition, clarity, consistency, and quality in low notes, and in lines that jump all over the place? (And, other thoughts about specific 2nd playing challenges are also welcome!)

[Dale Proctor]

I'm sort of the perennial 2nd player around town. Unless I have quite a bit of playing above the staff to do (which usually doesn't happen on 2nd parts) I play on a larger mouthpiece to help the low notes come out, whether cold or not. For me, that's a 1-1/2C or 3C on trumpet. For cornet, it's a Curry 3BBC. Practicing low notes and cold starts is also helpful. For lines that jump all over the place, I've found working exercises from the Schlossberg book to be a big help. It's entertaining to see someone who plays 1st parts almost exclusively struggle with a 2nd part because of the way the harmony lines are all over the place.
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[cheiden]

It seems to me that playing 2nd requires nearly all of the skill of playing 1st PLUS a huge burden to listen and match/complement the 1st. I've heard several accomplished players say that they consider playing 2nd to be harder than 1st because of this. I can't imagine any way to improve in this area other than lots of playing with really good 1st players.
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Charles J Heiden/So Cal
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[benlewis]

Marc Reese had an article in the ITG Journal a few issues back that addressed this matter. A very insightful and entertaining read…

[jmberinger]

This is an interesting topic as not only is the second required to match volume, tonal quality and pitch, but to do so in a manner that promotes and supports the first part. Listening to all of the parts, including the third and possibly the fourth, for the blend and then adding the part to the orchestra can be difficult.

In orchestral works, the rather extensive leaps from the lower register to the unison of an octave, or, in more modern works, playing in a "separate" part and then joining for section work is much more demanding than the first part. And much more entertaining as well.
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John M. Beringer, Jr.
Bach 229 LC (Malone Leadpipe); Bach Bb 180S37; Eastman D/Eb. Bush WX-S Mouthpiece

[Ricetrpt]

This is a really good topic. I'd love to know what leaping second trumpet parts you are referring to (other than Firebird). A lot of the Beethoven, Haydn, Mozart, etc... second parts have leaps in the parts from octaves to unison, but standard performance practice is for the 2nd trumpet to play these notes down an octave.

Either way, I think that ear training is one of the most important aspects of playing section parts. Often times, the inner parts are so much harder to hear than the melody, and we find ourselves struggling to play in tune. If you can sing, or better yet, solfegge your second and third trumpet parts, the pitch will be MUCH better. It's really challenging, particularly as the music gets more and more complicated. The section parts to the march in the first movement of Shostakovich 5 come to mind.

I think it's also important that a second trumpet player doesn't play too quietly. Those low entrances are often in octaves with the first part, and the bottom octave needs to be stronger than the top for blend and balance. I know that doesn't help with the mechanics of playing those notes, but it may if those notes are being approached timidly. Again, really hearing the pitch before you play it is invaluable.

As far as the mechanics of playing the leaps that may be required in the second trumpet rep, I can't think of a better place to start than page 125 of the Arban book.

[Peter Bond]

[ralphnz]

I was just thinking about this a few weeks ago, while playing 2nd for Brahms' Piano Concerto No. 2. There's one jump in the 2nd movement where we were an octave apart, then a third - I think it was a 13th for me. But there was no time to think about it because there were a whole lot more notes to come, and I still had to cover much more ground than my colleague, rangewise. If only the audience knew how much I stressed over those two notes, how many times I practised that jump...

Nailed it though.

Incidentally, Firebird's coming up later this year. Should I be worried?

[laser170323]

Mr. Bond,
I think you write the best posts: informative, funny, and right on the money. Thank you.
Laser170323

[jmberinger]

I particularly liked the comment of the second providing the “foundation” for the first trumpet with steady pitch/rhythm; and I completely agree with it. When I was primarily playing first in orchestras in college (25 years ago) I was constantly talking to the second and third trumpet to play up in volume to allow the harmonic play to complement what was going on in the section.

Their active involvement allowed me to reduce/focus my volume contribution and it encouraged a more sectional approach to the musical concept. As I told a student recently, there is a reason that there are two and sometimes three trumpet parts, and it was not because it was mandated by the Musician’s Union.

One other thought, are there any trumpet principals with a major symphony that bring their own second player with them? Are there any thoughts regarding how to develop as a second trumpet player?
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John M. Beringer, Jr.
Bach 229 LC (Malone Leadpipe); Bach Bb 180S37; Eastman D/Eb. Bush WX-S Mouthpiece

[aspeyr1]

[Qnaza]

[Craig Swartz]

[connicalman]

In quintet I had the 2nd book. In an early practice the group at times, and especially my part, sounded muddy. Some of the best advice I got here on TH was to "make it shine", and 'let it speak' as regards to the 2nd part. When I no longer played with too much deference to the lead, the entire quintet lit up. A very good, and much appreciated lesson about everyone pulling their weight and not allowing for any shadows.
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[Steve A]

[Dale Proctor]

[Ricetrpt]

Steve- Thanks for the link to Thomas Stevens' article. It's a great read.

For whatever it's worth, when it comes to playing the written unisons as octaves, I think we need to not only consider the capabilities of the natural trumpets, but also the timbre. Anyone who has played a natural trumpet or even listened to them a fair amount knows that they don't have as bright of a sound as the modern trumpets. Two natural trumpets playing in unison wouldn't cut through an orchestra the way two modern horns would. Of course, on our modern trumpets we can just back off the sound for the unisons, but I find it to be less challenging both musically and mechanically to keep the octaves going.

Like Stevens says, there is no right or wrong answer. [/quote]

[Craig Swartz]