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Bill
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Joined: 11 Nov 2001
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Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
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 Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I took a run at the lacquer one and he came back with a counter offer of $1295. A silver plate 1001 popped up for $1000 BIN that ended up being 4 months old, never played and came with the ProTec triple case and shipping included. Weird thing...he used the picture of ewetho's 1001 from March 2009 in his listing. Anyway I snatched it and should get it next week. Ive got 2 Stamm. 464 Bessons one silver and one lacquer and cant wait to try it out side by side next to them. Where do I Apply for 1001 club membership? 
Thank you, Dennis! There's a lacquered one on ebay right now. It's got a couple of dents here and there and they're asking a lot for it. I don't know if the seller will come down or what their 'make an offer' price is.[/quote]
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Bill Mirrielees
Wilmington NC
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DavesTrumpet
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DavesTrumpet
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Location: Shreveport, LA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| ewetho wrote: | | <snip>As far as down low, I challenge my band to keep up with me and I ring low G HARD with that Benge edge and sound. YUP. Them Bachs cry for mercy. Might be the 22 throat Schilke 20D2d though! ! |
LOL! I played on a 20D2d in college for about four days! That's a HUGE mpc!
I agree about the low G. Dokshizer played a LA era MLP and his low G on the recording of Kol Nidrei is the most sonorous low note I've ever heard played on trumpet! (I can't access youtube from work, but posted it there a couple of years ago. This should be the url: www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKg4QfGKYCY ) Something about that Benge sound!
I also own a UMI Benge 3X. It's got a pretty good sound but has tuning issues the Kanstul Chicago doesn't. It also can't ring like the Kanstul.
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Dave M
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DavesTrumpet
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: |
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| Bill wrote: | | I took a run at the lacquer one and he came back with a counter offer of $1295. A silver plate 1001 popped up for $1000 BIN that ended up being 4 months old, never played and came with the ProTec triple case and shipping included. Weird thing...he used the picture of ewetho's 1001 from March 2009 in his listing. Anyway I snatched it and should get it next week. Ive got 2 Stamm. 464 Bessons one silver and one lacquer and cant wait to try it out side by side next to them. Where do I Apply for 1001 club membership?
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Great news, Bill! Welcome to the 1001 Club! LOL! Let us know how the horn turns out. That's an incredible price!
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Dave M
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Bill
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Location: Wilmington, North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you Dave - I am really looking forward to getting the Chicago 1001 and testing it against both Stamms. The Stamms play very nicely, slot extremely well and are just all around great horns. My silver Stamm's G just above staff is quite sharp but otherwise intonation is good. I 'm pumped reading all the great comments on the Chicago horn and eager to try it. Thanks for the kind words.
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Bill Mirrielees
Wilmington NC
Wilmington Big Band
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DavesTrumpet
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crzytptman
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | My silver Stamm's G just above staff is quite sharp but otherwise intonation is good. |
PVA and gap . . .
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Bill
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Nate, hope you are well. I read somewhere that the Stamm Bessons were made with a little different gap because Marvin used a particular Mp with a shorter shank than most others. Since the G on top of staff is played open (usually) valve alignment is taken out of the equation is it not? Pls correct me if wrong. The note flattened out nicely played with 1 and 3.
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Bill Mirrielees
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crzytptman
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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Downstroke alignment is controlled by the pad on top of the valve cap, or under the button. Upstroke alignment is controlled by the pad that sits on top of the spring barrel.
The only way to get the gap right for you is to use the sleeve system.
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Crazy Nate aka Jive-a-licious
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Jerry
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:50 am Post subject: |
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| Bill wrote: | | .... Since the G on top of staff is played open (usually) valve alignment is taken out of the equation is it not? Pls correct me if wrong. ... |
No, valve alignment is not taken out of the equation. Any (or all) valves could be out of alignment in the up position. |
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Bill
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Well alrighty then - thanks for the heads up.
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DaveH
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| shofarguy wrote: | | DavesTrumpet wrote: | | shofarguy wrote: | | Yamahaguy wrote: | I'm glad you got it! I was next on the list...but
like you I have too many already. 
I had one in silver which wasn't too bad, a bit
bright for my taste. I was just curious to give
it a go.
Enjoy! You sound good on it, keep on keepin on.
Peace,
-Dennis |
O-o-oh, but it's that Benge sound! Up in the notes between C in the staff and G above high C. Not every horn ends up with it, but if you come across one... Mm, mm, MM!
I've played two that had it. One was a Chicago era ML Benge. The other was a Kanstul 1001 owned by none other than Charles Hargett. I know, I know! Lots of you will say, "It''s the player, not the horn." Not always.
Brian |
Hi Brian,
I'm intrigued. Are you saying this horn has it? I know none of my Bachs ring like this. Well, heck, not even my (don't laugh) UMI Benge! |
Dave,
I've been spending the past week or so listening to Herb Alpert videos on YouTube. I really love the Fandango and Blow Your Own Horn albums. The sound of his horn on those is so alive and vibrant! Sure he does some weird, whiny stuff at times, but when Herb puts some gas to his tone, the sound is really special.
I can't say for sure that he used his Benge for those, but both album covers show a Benge in the photo. If you listen to his later Magic Man album, with the King (?) on the cover, the same tone just isn't there. Certainly, by the time he cut Under A Spanish Moon, he'd moved on and gotten into the Smooth Jazz sound. Might have gotten his Kanstul 1504 by then, I don't know. The sound of those horns is nothing at all like the Benge. After BYOH, it just dies away, IMO.
Brian |
As a "student", follower, and devotee of Herb Alpert the musician/trumpet player and his music since the mid 1960s and the original Tijuana Brass, it's my opinion that in this particular case, the horn is pretty much inconsequential. Herb Alpert creates recordings that are intentionally different. In the case of Herb Alpert, we are considering a player and a sound that is tremendously unique, has spanned a period of 50 years, and has been in a constant state of "forward motion" and innovation during that entire time.
I think the approach that Herb was using in the studio at any given period, and the intended musical outcome of any particular recording in any period of time has a lot do with the recorded sound, as well as the particular period of time in question. The sound of the Tijuana Brass recordings made in the 1960s, and the various sounds of later albums from the late 1970s (Rise) on into the 1990s (Passion Dance, Second Wind, etc) cover a wide range of styles and musical concepts.
The way Herb produced the Tijuana Brass sound is very different from later albums as a soloist. Moreover, Herb has covered a lot of musical bases, so to speak, and has made a deliberate attempt to vary the style and sound over the decades as his forays into different musical styles has evolved.
So yes, the Chicago Benge is the main signature horn of the Herb Alpert sound. However, I am suggesting that the recording studio, production techniques, stylistic approach, the musical "statement" the artist was seeking, and the particular period in time have just as much to do with what you hear on any given album as any horn he may have been playing at any give time. I am simply trying to say that, in my opinion, Herb Alpert himself has more to do with what you hear than the horn he is playing at any given time. He himself is the primary "instrument". |
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shofarguy
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| Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, I agree, but the truth is that when he went for a more Smooth Jazz sound in the middle 80s or into the 90s, he left the Benge behind. The resulting change is obvious. Even between Blow your own horn (which sounded just like Fandango and Rise) and Magic Man, there is a discernible loss of sparkle in the sound.
By the time he got to Under a Spanish Moon, the tone quality had gone so far away from the lively Benge sound, that I believe he had taken possession of the 1504 with the custom bronze bell.
Brian
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Bill
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I finally got the chance to really play on the new 1001 Chicago and do some side by sides with the Stamm .464's.
First of all the horns physically felt different. The valve block on the Stamm horn seemed a little taller and felt closer to the face when playing. The throw length on the valves was similar, fairly short. The second valve slide was offset to the front on the Chicago, I am guessing a nod to the old Benges and F. Bessons.
This new Chicago horn was manufactured in December of 2011 and was hardly played at all. The valves were a little sluggish at first and first and third slides were very tight and required a little effort to move. A good wipe-down and oiling made the valves much better.
Playing the horn was very nice. If I could describe the difference between the Stamm and the Chicago 1001 I would do it this way...the Stamm had more secure slots up and down the mid range scales, the Chicago was more "liquid" feeling. Above high C the Stamm spoke clearer but the Chicago intonation was better. I top out at high F# on a good day (playable range) so I cannot comment on the extreme range capability.
I took both horns to Big Band rehearsal. I normally play 3rd but play the 1st charts when the lead player is not there. He wasn't present so I got a chance to see how each horn performed when pushed (or to say another way when I get tired). Very much a toss up. I shut down the Chicago during the second read through of Groovin High and picked up the Stamm again and got through it. I'm sure it was me or the mp (not the horn) shutting down because I picked the Chicago back up again during hour 2 of rehearsal and it played well.
Gave it a day of rest and played it again and it felt more secure and comfortable. The tone is even and smooth, and does brighten up above A above the staff. The Stamm tone is more strident and brassy.
As you can see I'm in experimental mode still All in all a wonderful horn...but now I've got 3 wonderful horns and really only need one.
One thing I haven't yet done is have a listener on the other end to tell me what it sounds like from horn to horn. That's next step I think.
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Bill Mirrielees
Wilmington NC
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ewetho
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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You might find you need a slightly different MP maybe throat or backbore to make it fit how you like to blow. However maybe it was just a bit different and you will adjust soon enough to how the new Axe likes to do things.
I just found that go to mouthpiece for me and my 1001 which is a Kanstul M-B11 P (Monette Prana B1-1). I don't play lead and while my band is an outgrowth of brass band bands we are now a concert band (almost a symphony we got a string bass, LOL). I want a big dark full symphonic sound yet with a sizzling Benge edge especially when pushed. I can easily change styles.
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richardwy
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| Posted: Wed May 02, 2012 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Had an MLP in . . . '77 maybe. Played on it for a good bit.
Now I have to go back and read the important stuff. Oh, I traded it straight across for a Chicago. Which I sold. Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb.
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