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dweddle New Member
Joined: 23 May 2012 Posts: 4
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject: 3 month program |
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Hello everybody,
I have the next three months off from any work, rehearsal, or anything important, and I feel like if nothing else I could come back into fall quarter with a sizzling range and endless endurance. My current "high" register is around a double G, give or take on what day it is, and it's been about that for at least 3 or 4 years now. I really haven't seen any substantial improvement in my range or endurance for a while, and I was wondering if the knowledgable minds of the trumpetherald forum had any good practice regime's for me to try out.
Also, I use a bach 3C for most ensembles, and then switch to my pea-shooter Mic Gillette (8E) Marcinkiewicz for lead and other various screaming.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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Clarke and Charlier, 8va. No strain, very controlled volume. Short practice sessions, LOTS of rest between them.
Have you seen Warburton's PETE? (Poor man's version is the right sized button, with thread you can pull on) |
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solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 3:05 am Post subject: Re: 3 month program |
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dweddle wrote: | Hello everybody,
... I really haven't seen any substantial improvement in my range or endurance for a while, and I was wondering if the knowledgable minds of the trumpetherald forum had any good practice regime's for me to try out.
Any help would be greatly appreciated! |
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" The Knevitt- Cimera Method For Developing The Upper Register On Trumpet "
" Building Power in the Upper Register on Trumpet "
" You Can Scream With Endurance To Spare On Trumpet "
" Screech With The Best Of Them " mp3 download
http://latorremusic.com
Look into opening the throat of your mpc's. In my opinion for most developed players # 28-25 throats are too small (restrictive). I use a #22 drill. Bill Knevitt used a #22, Herbert L. Clarke used a number 20 ! It made a huge difference for me.
Last edited by solo soprano on Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:13 am; edited 2 times in total |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:49 am Post subject: |
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Do NOT open the throat on a MP that is working well for you. I you want to experiment with throat sizes, get another MP to mess with. However, you'll probably find--like many players--that a #25 is as large as you want for playing lead.
I second the recommendations from those who say to play high and soft, without straining. That is an oft recommended method, regardless of which pedagogy one prefers. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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StupidBrassObsession Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | However, you'll probably find--like many players--that a #25 is as large as you want for playing lead. |
Unless you're Maynard. Then it's a Large Bore trumpet + a #17 throat mouthpiece. At least that's what he said in a clinic that you can find on youtube |
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INTJ Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Dec 2002 Posts: 1986 Location: Northern Idaho
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:43 am Post subject: |
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StupidBrassObsession wrote: | Quote: | However, you'll probably find--like many players--that a #25 is as large as you want for playing lead. |
Unless you're Maynard. Then it's a Large Bore trumpet + a #17 throat mouthpiece. At least that's what he said in a clinic that you can find on youtube |
That sounds fishy, but smaller cups do often need larger throats to avoid being overly tight. Roger Ingram uses a #30 throat, but most strong lead players seem to settle around a #25 to #28. Then again, what most players may or may not use equipment wise is often unhelpful. I think we have to find our own way with equipment. Sometimes that means following the crowd, sometimes it means going our own way. _________________ Harrels VPS Summit
Wild Thing
Flip Oakes C
Flip Oakes Flugel
Harrelson 5mm MP |
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dweddle New Member
Joined: 23 May 2012 Posts: 4
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 1:52 am Post subject: |
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thanks for all the suggestions, guys. and since we're on the topic of mouthpieces, should i do these exercises on my 3C (default) mp only, or should i do anything on my peashooter? |
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crzytptman Heavyweight Member
Joined: 03 Sep 2003 Posts: 10124 Location: Escondido California
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 7:32 am Post subject: |
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You could do a lot worse than following Gordon's Systematic Approach, 2-3 weeks per lesson. The Knevitt material that solosop is recommending is derived from Gordon.
I also agree, get another 3C and have it opened to #24. _________________ Crazy Nate - Fine Yet Mellow Fellow
"so full of it I don't know where to start"
Horn: "just mismatched Kanstul spare parts"
- TH member and advertiser (name withheld) |
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spitvalve Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Mar 2002 Posts: 2193 Location: Little Elm, TX
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:29 am Post subject: |
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dweddle wrote: | thanks for all the suggestions, guys. and since we're on the topic of mouthpieces, should i do these exercises on my 3C (default) mp only, or should i do anything on my peashooter? |
You should practice on both proportional to the amount of time you'll be spending on each during school. _________________ Bryan Fields
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1991 Bach LR180 ML 37S
1999 Getzen Eterna 700S
1977 Getzen Eterna 895S Flugelhorn
1969 Getzen Capri cornet
1995 UMI Benge 4PSP piccolo trumpet
Warburton and Stomvi Flex mouthpieces |
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terpfan0512 Veteran Member
Joined: 23 Aug 2004 Posts: 218 Location: Huntington, NY
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Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Ask Kurt Thompson - he's offering a three month lead trumpet lesson series. |
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solo soprano Heavyweight Member
Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 856 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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dweddle wrote: | thanks for all the suggestions, guys. and since we're on the topic of mouthpieces, should i do these exercises on my 3C (default) mp only, or should i do anything on my peashooter? |
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Only an opinion, " But The Ad Said It Was A High Note Mouthpiece "
" There has never been a " High Note Mouthpiece " made, And there never will be. Any restriction that takes place after the lips is set in vibration has no effect on whether you play high or low -- and this includes mouthpieces."
" By using two very different size mpc's your really developing two different feels for every note on the horn. Why ? Because every time you change mouthpieces, all of the muscles involved must make adjustments." While many players use a wide selection of mouthpieces with success, most fine players use one for all their work.
FIND A GOOD MOUTHPIECE AND STICK WITH IT !
" Mouthpiece normally have restrictions built into them in the form of small drill holes, short " tight " throats, and long restricted backbores. These mouthpieces are based on assumption that such restriction will intensify the air stream ( which they will), and thus produce a higher note ( which they won't )."
I would use the 3C only. Why ? Because the 3C in a fine mouthpiece and has less restrictions build into as does the "peeshooter ".and as " crzytptman " suggests open it up to a #24 .
Acknowledgment, Bill Knevitt |
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StupidBrassObsession Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Mar 2012 Posts: 1014
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Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 3:50 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Ask Kurt Thompson - he's offering a three month lead trumpet lesson series. |
Kurt requires all his students to be able to do the pencil exercise using their heavy-weight mouthpiece for 12 minutes before attempting his lead trumpet course...
Just kidding. |
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Avan Veteran Member
Joined: 03 Jan 2012 Posts: 396 Location: Ventura County, CA
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:39 am Post subject: |
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StupidBrassObsession wrote: | Quote: | Ask Kurt Thompson - he's offering a three month lead trumpet lesson series. |
Kurt requires all his students to be able to do the pencil exercise using their heavy-weight mouthpiece for 12 minutes before attempting his lead trumpet course...
Just kidding. |
I thought it was a Tuba Mouthpiece he requiered!!
Not Kidding! LOL _________________ 1948 Selmer GP
" Man Without an Audience "
Album Release - 2017
" Mi Vida es Una Cancion "
Album release - 2022
USAF 1974-1980 E-4 |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 7771 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: |
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Along with the other suggestions, play through (or learn) all of the Arban Characteristic Studies up to tempi and also work through the entire Smith Book (Top Tones), also to tempo. These should keep you free and flexible and keep you from binding up. They will also help your over-all endurance. I usually do similar things over the summer, where I'll actually play 3 or more hours per day if the fishing isn't good and weather not so great. My problem the past two years has been trying to maintain the level of non-rehearsal/performance playing once I get back to work in late August. Can't do it. This year, I don't have to go back. Good luck. |
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gtrmptman New Member
Joined: 20 Sep 2007 Posts: 7
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Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:09 am Post subject: High Register |
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I usually like to incorporate Caruso method material followed by Gordon's Systematic Approach. It really gets all the muscles involved. I know some trumpet players really like to play soft scales to get that relaxation but it doesn't work for everyone.
Best of luck |
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trumpetreed New Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2012 Posts: 5 Location: CT, TX
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:56 pm Post subject: Practice |
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I have had a lot of issues with my high range, changed mouthpieces, and recently changed my embouchure because of scare tissue from when I was younger. Free buzzing, pencil exercises, long tones, breathing exercises, mouthpiece buzzing (to smartmusic or a recorded exercise track) has drastically changed my playing and range. It is a long process for most but has really helped me with my daily routine and getting things working again. |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 10609 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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solo soprano wrote: |
Only an opinion, " But The Ad Said It Was A High Note Mouthpiece "
" There has never been a " High Note Mouthpiece " made, And there never will be. Any restriction that takes place after the lips is set in vibration has no effect on whether you play high or low -- and this includes mouthpieces." |
I think this merits discussion. Some mouthpieces not only make playing high notes easier for me, but some enable me to play higher. Same with horns.
solo soprano wrote: |
" By using two very different size mpc's your really developing two different feels for every note on the horn. |
Very much agreed! If this is the only option, it is no option at all and you're better off playing just one mouthpiece. And many many players have shown that if you have to pick just one mouthpiece, and you can play a 3C, that is a very good choice. Mark Curry's success is due (in part) to the fact that you can't find different purpose Bach mouthpieces with the same rim. Or at least you couldn't until he fixed that problem ...
So if the OP got himself a Curry with a rim and ID like his 3C, but built to assist high range and lead playing ...
Why ? Because every time you change mouthpieces, all of the muscles involved must make adjustments." While many players use a wide selection of mouthpieces with success, most fine players use one for all their work.
FIND A GOOD MOUTHPIECE AND STICK WITH IT !
" Mouthpiece normally have restrictions built into them in the form of small drill holes, short " tight " throats, and long restricted backbores. These mouthpieces are based on assumption that such restriction will intensify the air stream ( which they will), and thus produce a higher note ( which they won't )."
I would use the 3C only. Why ? Because the 3C in a fine mouthpiece and has less restrictions build into as does the "peeshooter ".and as " crzytptman " suggests open it up to a #24 .
Acknowledgment, Bill Knevitt[/quote] |
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Shaft Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Sep 2006 Posts: 995
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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A couple of things to mention this deep in the thread.
not to argue just to supplement. My lead piece is the same rim diameter as my legit mpc. So my lips don't receive as much shock when crossing over.
Pea shooter doesn't so much apply to me as I don't have my lips protrude into a cup very far. So to each their own there on set up and perception.
Secondly, Playing whisper quiet helps get things going really well. So does setting your chops for a G above the staff before your exercises. Then you relax for two octaves all of the time and only need to compress for an octave to get to the next G.
Try that for a while if you like. With a range like yours you may just be needing one little tweak for another jump in range. I learned from Pops and by reading some of Roddy-O's stuff. Start asking some of these guys in a pm or a phone call or email. Maybe you can set up a skype lesson with someone who can see what your approach is like and it may be something that they a pro's pro can help you with rather easily.
Good luck, that's a good enough range for a lot of work. Improv work and chord change analysis could get you some jazz gigs and a g above high c will keep you qualified for a lot of work bud.
Have a good summer _________________ 🎺 1st Gen. Gold Wild Thing
🎺 Benge 3X+
🎺 ‘58 Conn 6B Victor
Curry JMZ14 |
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royjohn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 12 Jan 2005 Posts: 2272 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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dweddle,
You say: Quote: | I really haven't seen any substantial improvement in my range or endurance for a while, and I was wondering if the knowledgable minds of the trumpetherald forum had any good practice regime's for me to try out. |
Now you can always ask a question like this here and get a bunch of different answers off the top of people's heads . . . . but you haven't really given much info for people to go on. I wonder what you've been doing for three or four years that has produced no results in areas which you (apparently) would like to improve.
I think that trumpet playing is not rocket science, but it is a complex skill which many want to reduce to one or two issues. Hence one school focuses on sound, another on air and tongue level, yet another on embouchure placement and aperture, etc., etc. If you fail to progress, you've a) got a technical issue or b)you are doing something destructive in your practice. I wonder if pondering this would help you decide what to do. _________________ royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . . |
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thomaszk New Member
Joined: 20 Jun 2012 Posts: 5 Location: Hamilton, OH
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Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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it's great |
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