how to build endurance ?

mrgrimm18 · Regular Member Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 47

hi im trying to build more endurance so that i can play with less pressure and so i can hit the high register without much pressure.... do long tones work to minimize pressure and help fo endurance??? also if i play long tones, should i feel a burning sensation? thnx

christophac7 · Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:16 pm Post subject:

Hey Mrgrimm18,

I've had (and somewhat currently have) that same issue. Some methods I've done to help with this include:

1. As soon as I feel pressure while playing, immediately removing the mouthpiece from my face and resetting my mouthpiece.
2. Hold your horn as you normally would, and do a long tone on something in a very comfortable range, somewhere between G and C in the staff, and while you play, slowly pull the horn away from your face until your unable to play. Repeat this until you find the sweet spot where you can still hold the note with a good tone and are applying as little pressure as possible.
3. Also, typically wider rims help cushion the pressure on your lips, so perhaps looking into that (on Bach mouthpieces, there would be a 'W' in the name, i.e., 3CW). Also, I've seen of the Warburton A.P.E. (Anti-Pressure Exerciser), but I have no personal knowledge of this nor read any testimonials.

As for the burning sensation, it is somewhat normal, depending upon a few things. It should never feel like a tremendous amount of pain, if so, you should stop and flutter your lips (horse lips, buzz it out, many terms) and this is the true note of your endurance, only way it will go away is by playing more, just don't kill yourself.

So, if you take these methods your endurance and sound will improve. Best of luck to you!

-Chris
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mrgrimm18 · Regular Member Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 47

Thank you very much for your reply i have another question , is it okay to make pressure when trying to hit a note you cant really hit while you practice? Will it damage my lips? Thanks

Comeback · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:41 am Post subject: Burning Sensation?

jadickson · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:09 am Post subject:

... at pp volume. I have found that practicing very softly forces you to play with better technique, basically because it's incredibly hard to play pp with a ton of mouthpiece pressure.

Lip flexibility exercises at pp volume help too. Go slow.

Also, think about it like lifting weights. You have to rest. A lot. Practice often, but not for hours at a time. 30-60 minutes several times a day will help you more than 3 hours once a day.

crzytptman · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:35 am Post subject:

You just have to play a lot for years. Practice the fundamentals of good trumpet playing for hours every day.
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drewwilkie86 · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 7:43 am Post subject:

Play. A lot. With great technique. All the time.

Rinse and repeat. It's not rocket science, so resist the temptation to over complicate things.
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EdMann · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:51 am Post subject:

I stumbled upon a great idea for this... well, not stumbled, per se; Roger Ingram turned me onto the concept, and it's two fold: play as efficiently for the type of music you're playing as possible. Playing lead, don't mess around with deep cups and large bores (unless you want to!). Brass 5tet, you're going to have the horn on your face more than most any other genre of playing, so don't go large there (unless you... you know).

The other is to pick up some jazz transcriptions, or etudes, or anything long form and play through them with a metronome, without stopping. Take a break. Do it again. Or play along with a great solo on record. The time is there automatically and you can't backtrack and start again. I'm telling you, that's the best for me after getting through some fundamental work. Or do the transc/etude thing and THEN do some fundamental work. The key is NOT stopping and messing with the time and starting again, just get through it. Works for me.

ed

mrgrimm18 · Regular Member Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 47

Thanks all of you u guys.for your help..... Last week i played like 13 hours in like 4 days and i know i went overboard. I played 5 on sat then rested only till monday and on wed i played 4 hour then on thurs i rested but then fri and sat i play 4 hours fri sat
Then i rested until tues but i noticed that i cant play in the high register, i put to much pressure should i take more days off? Thanks

HornnOOb · Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 8:14 pm Post subject:

Ride a bike or take long hikes.
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jazzjedi · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:58 pm Post subject: Gig

Pick up a cruise gig! Most shows don't have any breaks whatsoever so the first few nights suck but you definitely build and strengthen your muscles!

cheiden · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:14 pm Post subject:

Approach - Not all approaches can be expected to develop good range and endurance. You really need a pro level teacher to refine your approach into one that has potential.

Practice - Once you have a serviceable approach then you need to have a carefully constructed routine that you execute consistently.

I wish it was as easy as playing long tones or using minimum pressure but I'm afraid it's much more involved then that. And while both of thoses things are in general good goals going at them wrong could actually work against you.
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crzytptman · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:57 pm Post subject:

mrgrimm18 · Regular Member Joined: 12 Jul 2012 Posts: 47

yea i know now that i read it it sounds wrong but thanks for your advice

well i play in a mariachi and this saturday i have 6 hours on saturday and 8 on sunday but wata heck i aint gonna force myself into doing that cause i know its gonna cause me more damage than what ive already done

royjohn · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject:

mrgrimm18,

I don't want to make this a long dissertation . . . . . it's impossible to know how rigorous your playing is, how high the charts go, how loud you have to play . . . and you didn't say how long you'd play and then be fresh the next day, which is how much you ideally should play.

That said, reading between the lines, it sounds like you've been pushed into playing gigs that are a lot longer than you, or most people, are used to. And when you say you rested two days and then on the third day you couldn't play high, a big fat red flag went up for me . . . . . do you know what embouchure overuse syndrome is? If you keep on, I think you're headed there. The road back from there is real tough and some never make it back, so the operative phrase is "don't go there."

Do yourself a favor and use the search function here and look up some of the threads on this, or google it and look at sites by Lucinda Lewis and Jean Pocius and others.

All of us that suffer with the pressure problem find it gets worse the longer we play. If you want a good technique and a long playing career, do what one poster said and stop playing when you start using too much pressure . . . . rest and try again later. Later might be in a couple of hours or tomorrow. You need to learn to listen to what your body and your common sense is telling you, man. That's why you started this thread. Have you ever heard the saying "rest as much as you play"?

Let your band find another patsy if they can't accept your reasonable 2, 3 or 4 hour limit . . . . sorry to be so blunt, but I don't want to see you blow out your lip . . . .YMMV, but that's the way I see it.
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drewwilkie86 · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:43 am Post subject:

I can't even understand what the OP is saying. His typing/grammar/spelling/punctuation is horrendous. Please sir, take a moment to proofread your work.
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oliver king · Heavyweight Member Joined: 07 Aug 2008 Posts: 1231

Endurance, range, control good intonation, lyricism are all a by-product of efficiency.

For me being efficient in the practice of fundamentals and then bumping up against the Charlier or Laurant Etudes or 'Sousa 's Favorite Marches' makes good things happen.

sharaku888 · Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:16 pm Post subject:

Join DCI!! Efficiency, my friend. Long tones help, but just have to balance out your air support, buzz and pressure.

royjohn · Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:34 pm Post subject:

Qu'est que c'est le "DCI"?
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Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

Leonel Leon · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 134

Yeah I have been having this problem lately because of high school marching band. Which it is summer but they ask a bit much out of lead trumpets sometimes. I and more into solo and concert work, not loud marching band things. So it is a different style for me and a lot more high notes at loud dynamics, which isn't always good for the lips, speacailly after a few hours. So I am increasing the concert style work I am doing. It helps. Light peices with a wide range, but I can decide when I can stop on my own instead of someone saying keep going. And the pencile excersise. That works wonders, for me at least. Buzzing not so much.