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Al Guraliuk
Regular Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 88
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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 Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:18 am Post subject: Gold Plated Yamaha Shew Trumpet?? |
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Does anyone know if Yamaha will make a custom Gold plated YTR 8301Z trumpet ( and flugelhorn)?
Do I have to buy one and get someone to gold plate it?
I understand Anderson Silver Plating does all the Lawlers horns so they must be good. Any other suggestions?
Should I buy a laquer horn and have them strip it? I understand Gold has to go on top of silver. Or can I buy a silver horn and plate it or will the silver be too thick.
I am hoping one of you trumpet brothers have done this before.
I think I deserve a Gold trumpet. Any thoughts?
THANKS
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Al Guraliuk
Marcinkiewicz Bb Trumpet:
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etc-etc
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3996
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Three options:
1. Ask a Yamaha dealer. They may be able to arrange for you custom plating at the factory.
2. Plate over a silver horn.
3. Plate over a lacquered horn - will have to strip first. |
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cb3
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Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 828
Location: LA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:29 am Post subject: ok |
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| Can't exactly comment on your exact question but as a suggestion, it may be worth your time to spend some time with your exact horn to make sure it plays how you want it to and doesn't need adjustments before gold plating it. The last thing you want to do is to have to fix it afterwards. Hope that helps. |
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delano
Veteran Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 477
Location: The Netherlands
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobby Shew don't like his trumpets plated. |
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d.kocurek
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Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Posts: 111
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Al,
I'm sure it would be possible to get Yamaha to gold-plate a Shew...they offer it as an option on everything else!
Colin Wood here at the Vancouver L&M would know for sure one way or another. He should be back from vacation in a few days. Either that, or you could get directly in touch with Corey Taylor (the local Yamaha Rep) and chat with him about it.
Good luck!
Dan
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Adam V
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Joined: 12 Nov 2008
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Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if this changes your mind, but... It will cost an extra ~$2000 for the gold. The price is ridiculous nowadays...
I would say that if you plated over an already-silver horn, the silver would be thicker than what you'd normally want for that. You'd be better off buying a lacquer Shew and sending it to a place like Anderson's or Kanstul to plate. (I don't know if Anderson's does lacquer stripping, so if you chose them you would either have to strip the lacquer yourself, or send it somewhere else. Kanstul would do it all.)
| cb3 wrote: | | ...it may be worth your time to spend some time with your exact horn to make sure it plays how you want it to and doesn't need adjustments before gold plating it. The last thing you want to do is to have to fix it afterwards... |
When you say "adjustments", do you mean things like swapping valve caps, removing/re-soldering braces and/or pipes, etc.? These would be better-known as "modifications", and I would agree that these would best be performed before plating, as they would definitely compromise the finish of the horn. "Adjustments" are things like leadpipe venturi tweaks, receiver gap alterations, valve alignments, bore corrections, spit cork replacements, etc... It wouldn't matter whether these are done before or after plating.
Just wanna make sure, so nobody else gets confused 
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etc-etc
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 3996
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Under the right lighting, your lacquered Shew will look and sound golden anyway. |
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LittleRusty
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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Location: Santa Clara, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| etc-etc wrote: | | Under the right lighting, your lacquered Shew will look and sound golden anyway. |
That must be my problem with my sound. The wrong lighting.   |
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plankowner110
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Adam V wrote: | | ..........I would say that if you plated over an already-silver horn, the silver would be thicker than what you'd normally want for that......... |
The horn has to be silver plated first before gold plating. You can't gold plate directly on brass. At least that's how it worked thirty years ago when I had customer horns plated. Maybe the technology has changed since then.
EDIT:
To Adam V, I understand what you are saying. You were pointing out plating thickness and its effect of the sound of the instrument and not plating procedures. Sorry about my misread.
To the OP, I work weekly with a guy who plays a fairly new Shew trumpet in lacquer, and it has a beautiful finish that looks almost like gold plate! He is a terrific soloist (ala Chet Baker) and gets a gorgeous sound out of the horn. He uses the standard Yamaha Shew Jazz mouthpiece with it.
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Last edited by plankowner110 on Thu Jul 12, 2012 7:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Adam V
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Location: Long Beach, CA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| plankowner110 wrote: | | Adam V wrote: | | ..........I would say that if you plated over an already-silver horn, the silver would be thicker than what you'd normally want for that......... |
The horn has to be silver plated first before gold plating. You can't gold plate directly on brass. At least that's how it worked thirty years ago when I had customer horns plated. Maybe the technology has changed since then. |
I never said the gold would be plated directly onto the brass.
All I said was that if you plated (the gold, implied) over a horn with a factory silver finish, that silver plating under the new gold finish would be thicker than what you'd want (thicker than the "flash" layer of silver put underneath a factory gold plate, implied).
Just a simple misunderstanding.
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Al Guraliuk
Regular Member
Joined: 09 Sep 2005
Posts: 88
Location: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: Gold Shew horn |
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Thank you all for you input and discussion.
Although Yammies are very consistent it seems best to test drive a few 8301Z s, buy the horn then have the work done.
Yes I have heard Bobby say "the horn comes in silver but why would you ruin it." If he liked gold he would probably would play a gold horn.
I am excited about the gold but would not want to change how the horn plays. Any thoughts on this? ( I tend to think sliver vs lacquer was all in your head BUT the Silver Shew horn SOUNDS brighter)
Any other companies who do Gold Plating ... preferable in the North West?
I have been doing online research but it is always best to get a referral.
THANKS
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Al Guraliuk
Marcinkiewicz Bb Trumpet:
Monette Prana mouthpieces
Bb Yamaha Flugelhorn:
Schilke P5-4 Piccolo Trumpet
Besson Sovereign Cornet
Yamaha Eb/D Trumpet
Bach Strad C Trumpet
Benge Bb Pocket Trumpet |
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jmichaelhurt
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Joined: 19 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:31 am Post subject: |
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Most major cities are going to have somewhere to do plating BUT they aren't going to have experience plating instruments. That's why Anderson's is so popular. At our shop we sometimes use a local plating company here in Atlanta. We've had to stop sending horns there because it's too much of a pain to assemble the horn after it's been plated. They don't block off the ports so silver gets inside the horn(even when we block the ports ourselves), then we have to get all of that silver out. We have to re-thread anything that screws together because it has silver on it. So on and so on!
Anderson's knows how to plate a horn and they buff it after it's plated, which is a huge pain! Most folks don't realize that when a horn comes out of the silver plating tank it has a white haze all over it. This has to be buffed off which Anderson's does.
They are usually far cheaper too!!!
I say you send the horn to a company that specializes in plating instruments. It's just far easier in the long run. And yes, gold plating will run you close to $2k!
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Fohqudill-Instruments
New Member
Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 6
Location: Watford
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Plating thickness (microns) differ from company to company, we always put on a range of 15-20 microns (15 would be the low current desity area such as inbetween valve casings and 20 would be the rim which is a high current density area, we always aim to apply a minimum of 15 microns). Gold on the other hand we usually apply anything between 2-5 microns dependent on the customers wallet . You always apply a 'sealant' of either silver or copper, this is to prevent leaching of the brass (spotting). It would be easier to strip a instrument of its silver or lacquer and start fresh, that way you can guarantee that your not going to get blistering of the 'old' plating. We have found from players feedback that the silver does slightly brighten the horn whilst gold brings a warm quality to it. Also as mentioned proir, make sure whoever you use uses proper masking off products inside the valve block and slides to prevent excess plate entering these areas
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Nos Mo King
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Joined: 10 Feb 2008
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Location: Cheyenne WY
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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You could gold wash the inner bell and highlight the logo/ engraving with gold wash. Gold caps and finger buttons with your gold plated mouthpiece are a nice touch.
Not nearly the same as a completely gold plated horn. But if it is done right, it looks pretty sharp.
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Russ Chapman
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