Comeback Phases

[Comeback]

TH friend royjohn suggested that I start this thread. He and I had been communicating about several brass wind related topics of mutual interest and I suggested that I may have passed beyond the acquisition phase of my comeback. He wondered to me if a discussion of comeback phases might have broader interest and usefulness for other comebackers.

When I started my comeback a little over thirteen months ago, I remember all sorts of thoughts and impressions impinging upon my brain. I was trying to remember all that I had learned forty years before. I was working hard to regain some rudimentary level of proficiency. And then, of course, I was grappling with gear.

I started this endeavor with an old beat-up Blessing Standard trumpet with an equally abused ill-fitting Conn 4 mouthpiece and a not-quite-so-beat-up old Holton Collegiate cornet with a Holton cornet mouthpiece. Now, as I write this, I have four Bb trumpets, three Bb cornets, a flugelhorn, and an unknown number of mouthpieces. While all of that acquiring was interesting and fun, it did distract a little from regaining and increasing proficiency.

While I have no true regrets, hindsight might reveal a superior path that could have been taken. Buying a good new trumpet was not a mistake; note that I wrote "good" not high-end pro or specialty. I did not know enough to be confident of avoiding issues that can affect used purchases and I was convinced (still am) that I needed something better than the old Standard. My 2009 Blessing BTR-ML1 is a good trumpet. It has served me well and I am not close to outgrowing it. But, frankly, that is where the acquisition campaign could have ended. While I have been diligent in my practice, I suspect I could have been more so. And that money I spent for all of those other instruments? It may have been better spent on lessons from an excellent teacher, or useful trumpet literature, or not spent at all.

So, is there a phase-related takeaway from this tale? I think so. If you are considering a comeback, I suggest thinking about what you might want to do early on. I simply wanted to once again become a good confident trumpet player, capable of playing a variety of music well and holding up my end in a community band, pit orchestra, or ensemble. I have made progress toward my goal, in spite of distractions. How about you? What is your comeback story? Might sharing it be helpful to others considering a comeback of their own?

Jim
_________________
Bb Trumpets: 2000 Bach Stradivarius 180S37, 1972 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
Bb Cornet: 2008 Blessing XL-CR Shepherd's Crook
Flugelhorn: 1990 Blessing Artist

[jiarby]

It's been a similar road for me...
I am a comebacker, started in April last spring (15 months ago), after a 19 year layoff.

The only horn I owned when I started was a 1967 Conn Director cornet, with a Bach 7 (not a 7C, just a plain 7) mouthpiece that was stuck (for the last 25 years).

I went to a music store to check out new Bach Strads and was shocked at the prices. I bought mine for $775 (albeit in 1977)... and traded it in 1992 for a Packard Bell 386sx computer. (I parlayed that into a career as an IT systems administrator)

Anyway, I decided to not buy a horn until I had practiced everyday for two weeks. (something I never did in my life).

Sure enough, two weeks go by and I practiced everyday. Arban, Clarke, and Irons almost exclusively. Usually about 45-90 minutes spread across a couple sessions.

After those two weeks I took some poker winnings and found a guy selling an Ambassador for $50 on craigslist. It was great! A REAL trumpet. It has a couple issues and I wanted to end up with a "pro"
horn so I sold it online for $125.

I flipped about 3-4 $50 craigslist horns and finally ended up with a Yamaha 5335 in a trade for a coprion Conn 17B. Still an intermediate horn, but the best one I had seen so far and in minty condition.

After flipping the Yamaha I finally had enough in my horn bankroll to look at low end Strads and 6xxx Yamahas.

I got a Yamaha 6345HG, and it was the 1st horn that I felt like I could push. It was a largebore (.462) heavyweight. I played this horn for the next 8-9 months.

Even though I liked this horn I still felt like there was a better lead horn out there and strated flipping horns again.

I tried a bunch but finally ended up with what I think is the perfect horn for my playing style: A Kanstul 1601

At the beginning of this summer I had the Yamaha 6345, the Kanstul 1601, a Bach 37, and a Kanstul 1504. I played them all summer in a reading big band, and settled on the 1601 as the "go to" lead horn.

I will probably keep the Yamaha for concert band and legit gigs and sell the 1504 and the Strad.

Now that my horn quest is over I want to upgrade my flugel to the 1525 Kanstul!

After that I am done, I swear!!

[EdMann]

Phases of buying and playing are, of course, different animals, but the constant is finding a sound I like, and the search has helped me discover the variety of sounds I can make on a horn. My first comeback purchase after my 8310Z, which I recently sold, was my '23 Conn 22B, and after the first note, I was convinced that this was not only a fine instrument, but that someone was living inside it, playing Sousa marches and Mahler excerpts. That got me hooked, and I've gone through dozens of buy/sells. Not a bad little side business, either, and I get to hear all these wild differences.

Perhaps I've slowed on the buying side, and picked up the sales activity but only due to a narrowing of what I like to sound like. Sure is fun.

ed
_________________
29 NY Bach 6/6
42 Olds Spr
37 Conn 12B
91 Lwlr C
59 Slmr K-Mod
34 Conn 40B
55 Olds Rcd
49 Mrtn Cmte
Hltn ST301
23 Conn 22B
28 King Lib
Lblnc Picc.,
Bssn 1895 Crnt
55 Conn 28A Crnt
41 Olds Mltry Crnt
46 Conn 80A
1960 & 1868 Bssn Flg

[HornnOOb]

I started playing the trumpet a week before my 56th birthday. I started with a pawn shop Bach TR300 I paid $80.00 for, and after I realized that I was going to enjoy playing the trumpet and I would stick with it, I decided to buy a horn of a lifetime. And I did.

I will never out-grow my two trumpets and my playing experience just keeps getting better and better. Playing a high-end professional trumpet let's you be all the player you can be at any given time. There's never any wondering what you might sound like on a better horn.
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen LA Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna Severinsen Model
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop

[mrsemman]

Is it me or is there a common denominator here? My story is very similar to everyone elses'. I started my first comeback in 2003, after a 35 year layoff, with a "First Act" horn given to me by my wife. I still have it (but I use it as a parts horn). I rented a Bach TR300, but wasn't pleased with it, and bought my first Zeus ZTR 900. Got laid off in 2005 and stopped playing, and restarted two years ago. Since then I purchased another horn, a flugel, cornet and now a bass trumpet. I went through them all trying to get the sound and only recently did the ephiphany of "breathing" instead of blowing, change everything. I use my ZTR900 as my main horn, but have the time to use each one each week.

To all, keep up the great work.

Gary
_________________
Flip Oakes Wild Thing
Kanstul G Bugle
Jin Boa Bass Trumpet

[Bruin]

Came back in 2008 to celebrate my 50th birthday after a 25+ year hiatus. Had the same '64 Connstellation 38B that I rec'd as a Christmas gift in 8th grade in 1972, but it played miserably. I learned about Bob Reeves (thanks to TH'ers), and after "Forrest" (now w/ Stomvi) worked his magic on it, my 38B was reborn and plays better than new.

This, however, didn't stop me from looking for a lighter weight horn with a quicker response and more focused sound. I fell in love with my friends' 1960's Benge and Getzen Severinsen, that met these criteria. I found the Kanstul KTR-700S. Coupled with a Kanstul Claude Gordon CG3 mpc, this is a set up that really works for me: it plays and sounds just like I want it to, and it's a joy to own and play.

I play my trumpet every-other day for 15-30 minutes, primarily playing along with standards and improvising over their chords. I have wanted to, but have not committed to systematic study, although I have some great books for this purpose. I still may build some structure into my week to accommodate a quality practice routine, and may start this before summer ends.

Jim, regarding gear, I agree that it is helpful to a "good" quality horn to play. Although, if you're inclined to own a super-pro horn, why not? I just don't think they're necessary for what some of us comebackers do or need.

And, I agree with you about trying to figure out what you want to do with your trumpet playing. I am a recreational player and have no fantasies about doing much more. My goal at comeback was to have a much improved concept of playing jazz and improvising, which I have achieved; although, there's always a great deal of room for improvement!

My goals henceforth are to 1) be able to play in ALL keys and time signatures with greater proficiency than at the present time, 2) build up more endurance via a regular practice regimen, and 3) incorporate some of my trumpet playing into my compositions, which I believe will only motivate me to practice more because my practicing will have more immediate purpose and application. Once I achieve these goals, my next goal is to return to live performances.
_________________
'64 Connstellation 38B*
Kanstul 700S**
Jupiter 846S flugelhorn***
*Ultra-Pure Oil
**Berp Bio Oil
***Zaja Pro Oil

[Comeback]

Thread has cooled a little. I thought I'd weigh in again, between working up current tunes on my ML1. You know the really great thing about this discussion? No one has to be right or wrong, just willing to share experiences.

jiarby wrote: "Now that my horn quest is over I want to upgrade my flugel to the 1525 Kanstul After that I am done, I swear!!"
Good luck with that! You've had good success flipping horns. That could be something a fella could get hooked on! Still practicing 45-90 minutes per day? I'll probably do 90 today; scales and technical this morning and tunes tonight.

EdMann wrote: "...the constant is finding a sound I like, and the search has helped me discover the variety of sounds I can make on a horn.
Great argument for continuing to explore different instruments. I'm not so far along; still learning about fundamental characteristics of trumpet, cornet and flugel. But I'm having a blast doing that!

HornnOOb wrote: "Playing a high-end professional trumpet let's you be all the player you can be at any given time."
That is probably the most compelling argument for purchasing a premium horn, if you can afford it. I get caught up in the notion of three principle elements for trumpet playing: player, mouthpiece, instrument. I believe that the player is primary. Given decent levels of quality, I am uncertain about the priority of mouthpiece and instrument. Based upon my comeback experience so far, mouthpieces seem to make a huge difference in how horns sound and play. My 1952 Blessing Super Artist didn't sound very good with a modern mouthpiece that did not fit its receiver very well. It really sings with a vintage piece made for the horn!

mrsemman wrote: "I went through them all trying to get the sound and only recently did the ephiphany of "breathing" instead of blowing, change everything. I use my ZTR900 as my main horn, but have the time to use each one each week."
That "change everything" concept, did it come to you by dint of persistence? That is what I suspect. I work on extending range daily. But I do so sensitively. If its not "there" on a particular day, that part of my practice session is brief. Just tonight, however, I seem to have turned a corner with my high E. I got to that corner and made the turn simply by persisting.

Bruin wrote: "I found the Kanstul KTR-700S. Coupled with a Kanstul Claude Gordon CG3 mpc, this is a set up that really works for me: it plays and sounds just like I want it to, and it's a joy to own and play."
My experience has been very similar, Bruin. I feel the same way about my 2009 Blessing BTR-ML1 and its Blessing 3C. In fact, I often have difficulty putting the ML1 down so I can play the flugel, cornet, or even the Super Artist!

This has been an interesting collegial discussion. Thank you, everyone, for your contributions. Perhaps it will continue.

Jim
_________________
Bb Trumpets: 2000 Bach Stradivarius 180S37, 1972 Getzen Eterna Severinsen
Bb Cornet: 2008 Blessing XL-CR Shepherd's Crook
Flugelhorn: 1990 Blessing Artist

[jiarby]

[KanstulBrass]

I took ten years off, and have now been back for eleven years. Very long story short, it took me only a couple of years to get back to the level where I once was but now I have became a much smarter player - allowing me to progress considerably.
_________________
Charles Hargett
Sales & Marketing Manager
Kanstul Musical Instruments
www.facebook.com/kanstulfactory

For product information contact us at 888-KANSTUL, or view the Kanstul website, www.kanstul.com

[connicalman]

Phases? instead of talking horn quests or hours by the metronome, I:

a. realized the trumpet mouthpieces I used when spry and delusional were maybe good for me back in the day, but at age 45 switched back to the ubiquitous Bach 7C until I felt at home and had a sense of my own "back 40"

b. (1) got a medium large bore cornet and got frustrated. It just didn't seem to be much different from my trumpet. Ah, but then my local shop suggested a semi-deep mouthpiece, appropriate to me and to the shepherd's crook. This combination was instant karma, dude! What a different sound. What a different blow. This kept the fire burning. (2) got a medium-small bore cornet and that same mpc that led to free & clear ring-the-bell tones above the staff through the crook nearly croaked me. Lesson: bore does NOT equate to air flow, the instrument is a resonator, not a resistor, not an amp.

c. got a small-bore fluegelhorn and a set of matching mouthpieces, then another set of matching mouthpieces, such that I had the deep-bowl open throat feel on the flug, the semi-deep and open bore on the cornet and a matching rim for the trumpet, plus the same in a c-cup with smaller diameter throat for each. Kept a steady diet of trumpet, augmented with fun on the more conical instruments. Joined TH and picked a user name.

d. found a teacher and began to realize that while I was fair to middling in talent and tone, that my pitch recognition and transposition skills were, shall we say, wanting

e. began to see that with continued effort and a dab of maturity, "I coulda been somebody" LOL. (see a., above re: spry and delusional) However, what I learned at this phase was that I'd eclipsed the best I had ever been in terms of intonation, range, sight-reading, etc., and was humbled by the clips posted here on TH and elsewhere of real players with old old plain-jane equipment

f. began to read, to really dig in and research the TH threads & found many resources. This led to i. appreciating the quality 'bigs' here on TH, and ii. began to listen more carefully to my own playing as well as to wonder what different combinations of equipment would sound like.

g. made several craigslist & ebay sellers happy, and only got two turkeys out of a dozen old brass wraps, some of which I tinkered with, fixed up and ...

h. ... or paid a pro here and there to bring up to snuff, then sold several of them to peeps I know who have kids in need of a decent trumpet or cornet, and got first-hand perspective on the importance of mouthpiece gap and piston-valve alignment.

i. along the way I joined a local orchestra & was reminded by guys who never went pro or who fell from the sky that I had a ways to go , and also joined a local quintet and had a lot of fun.
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. 28A

[Don Herman rev2]

Comeback phases:

1. Anticipation: "This will be great! I remember how good I was and how fun it was to play."

2. Denial: "Man I suck! I was never this bad, must be this old horn/mouthpiece/whatever."

3. Acceptance: "Well, all the new toys didn't help, guess I'll have to find a teacher and practice to get it back."
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"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley

[swthiel]

The best investment I made early in my comeback was lessons, hands down.
_________________
Steve Thiel
Matthew 25:31-46