My new E-flat!

Jon Kaplan · Posted: Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:16 pm Post subject: My new E-flat!

Hey everyone!

I just set an appointment with Charlie Melk to have an E-flat trumpet made for me from my spare Getzen and a Bach 239 type bell. I'm really excited, but I'm not sure what to expect from both the process and the finished product. Anyone out there have any experiences to share? I'm interested to hear about Melk's Eb conversions, but any other general comments or stories about Melk are totally welcome.
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Jon Kaplan
BM Trumpet Performance (In Progress), Arizona State University

Jon Kaplan · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:08 pm Post subject:

Anyone?

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Jon Kaplan
BM Trumpet Performance (In Progress), Arizona State University

Conn Collector · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:18 pm Post subject:

What will be the bore size of your finished product?

The only Eb I have is a vintage cornet with approximately .425" bore, very tight blow that I never liked, so I assumed that is typical of all Eb's.
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1962 Conn 9A Victor Coprion — .485”
1963 Conn 5A Victor — .485"
1953 Conn 34A Concert Special — .463”
1948 Conn 12A Coprion — .463"

Flip Oakes FO1 “Old Style” 17.65 mm,
wide as Schilke 24, deep as Wick 2B

“Jesus gives eternal life”

pitchlevel · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject:

Charlie does great work, top notch quality in everything he does. He does a lot of the work on my section mates horns, valve alignments and the like.

I've played on a few of his e flat conversions that were built from Bach B flats and they were all great horns. Big, open blows, very good for orchestral and solo use.

a.kemp · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject:

Do a search...you will find a ton on Melk Conversions

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5072

I fail to see why a highly trained Technician, builder, repair tech etc... like Charly would not be able to turn out a product as good if not better then an unskilled factor worker slaping together parts. By unskilled I just mean they do not do anything other then assembly things already designed and tested. Kind of like the difference between building a car from scratch including all the machining, welding, bonding and design work yourself versus working in assembly at a plant like GM or Ford where you just put parts on that are already designed to fit together in an assembly process designed to make it fast and easy.......One requires a lot of skill and training the other just a very little bit of skill. Assuming your valve assembly is sound and he has room to manuaver with leadpipe and total assembled length it should be better then factor configuration. This is especially true if he has you present for final trimming to tune it specifically to you and the MP you play with Eb.

When you are building for one person and not a generic OEM build you can give or take a 1/4 inch here 1/8 their to fine tune it to the person. You cannot do that when you are building a horn that has to go in a box and ship to out to anyone.
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The only easy day was yesterday!

RandyTX · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:09 pm Post subject:

I've had the opportunity to play on one of Charlie's Eb conversions, and it was a very nice playing instrument.

Hardly surprising, he's one of the cream of the crop guys for high brass work.

I also have had Charlie do a couple complete full-on restorations of older vintage horns for me in the last couple of years. Absolutely amazing quality of workmanship both times.

I can't imagine how you won't be more than pleased with your decision to have him build you a horn.

tpt64 · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject:

Charlie's horns are the best. You can rest assured that your Eb will be the best horn you have played.

ertatta · Heavyweight Member Joined: 23 Jun 2004 Posts: 798

IMO, if u are going to invest in having charlie build u this setup, i'd suggest u start out with a valve cluster & slides that are either bach or a good clone.

check ebay for the various B&S challenger stenciled horns (f. schmidt, allora, accent, gerhard baier) as that's where your best bargain will be. holton T-101 can also be had on ebay for a bit more than the B&S stenciled horns at around $550-$650.

u might also find a good deal on an older strad or yamaha heavywall that has a heavily damaged/crushed bell! Kaplan, have u talked to Hickman about it?

ford850 · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:28 am Post subject:

Charlie built two Eb horns for me...both were great but quite different.... Parts is NOT parts!
The first was all Bach, a Strad ML body with a 239 bell and the second was an Ambassador body with a Calicchio #1 bell. The first was sweeter and more lyrical while the second was bolder and more in your face; both played very well and had a plesant and enjoyable sound.
Make sure you talk to Charlie about the parts you want to use to see how he thinks they will end up sounding, as ertatta said you may want to go Bach or Bach clone. Make sure you get the sound you are after...it's a lot of money to spend if you don't like the horn when it is finished.
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Mark LaSavio
Getzen Renaissance
LB LA Benge (CG pipe, MLP Meha bell)
Bach 229C
Bach 236D
LA Benge pic

Jon Kaplan · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:12 pm Post subject:

So I'm getting some mixed messages here: I always thought that Getzen valve blocks were some of the best? What about that valve block wouldn't be a good choice for conversion? Also, I haven't officially chosen the bell I'm going to use for it yet: Charlie says he has both 229 and 239 type bells available to use for the conversion. Would a 229 be preferable?

Thanks for your patience guys: I appreciate the input.
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Jon Kaplan
BM Trumpet Performance (In Progress), Arizona State University

AJCarter · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:03 pm Post subject:

I think he means a valve block with slides for intonation purposes.. even though Charlie will adjust them anyway. Getzen valves are top notch.

I have a Melk Eb that was built by him form the ground up.. not a conversion. I can tell you my Eb/D is the envy of ALMOST everyone who plays it. Great sound, pretty good intonation and phenomenal build quality. you will not be disappointed.

gringoloco · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:52 pm Post subject:

A friend of mine has a Melk conversion with a Bach bell and Schilke valve block and doesn't like it at all (I haven't played it). He tried my all Bach 229 conversion and really liked it. Don't forget, these conversions were designed with a ML Bach valve block.
I Use my 229 bell conversion a lot in my orchestra and really like it. Although I used it for the Haydn in 2010 with good results, I remember wishing I had a 239 (maybe 239G...)bell for that. The nice thing is that you can have both with the right money.
I think you should consider in what manner you're going to use the horn. For large ensamble, I would (and did) go 229, for quintet/recital/solo I would probably go 239 or 239G.
My .02
Rob

ford850 · Posted: Sun Aug 05, 2012 6:47 pm Post subject:

Talk to Charlie...
I believe that the Getzen valve block will end up sounding brighter than a Bach...maybe good, maybe bad, your call. The Ambassador block I used on my second one was much darker; Charlie said it had a "meatier sound".
Getzen valves are great, I think it will be the weight of the valve block that will make a difference...and perhaps heavy caps will equalize things out...who knows?
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Mark LaSavio
Getzen Renaissance
LB LA Benge (CG pipe, MLP Meha bell)
Bach 229C
Bach 236D
LA Benge pic

jazztrumpet216 · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 6:44 pm Post subject:

I have a Melk conversion with Getzen 700S valves and a 229 bell and it plays nicely. A bit picky with mouthpiece selection (what Eb isn't?) but it can sound nice and light fot the solo stuff yet belt out orchestral lit nicely. It doesn't quite have the Bach response, but it is good. Just wish I used it more...

Anyway, have you gotten Charlie's advice on this? When I had mine done (2006) he recommended a 229 bell to go with the Getzen valve block. Jut curious...
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Kevin Peterson

1940 NY Bach 7/37
2009 Bach Philadelphia C
1972 Bach 37/Charlie Melk #3 leadpipe
2006 Bach/Melk Eb
1980's Benge Pic
1990's Getzen Eterna flugel
2000's Getzen 700S (lives in my trunk- use it to teach)

royjohn · Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 7:50 pm Post subject:

Wow, Jon!!

Great to hear from you after, what, a year down at the Hickman farm <BG> and to hear you are getting an Eb!

As you know, I'm a comebacker and not a student, but when Bill Jones built my D/Eb he used an old, small bore Bb Vega of mine and turned it into a great chamber instrument. By the time we got to building my C, we got together and cobbled together parts with tape and tried various stuff. I think this is a great way to go about it. That way you can try various stuff (bells, leadpipes, etc.) and see what you like. We used a copper bell on the C and tried various leadpipes, but on the Eb cornet he built for me, we tried two different bells on the horn. There's no reason you can't do this if you can find candidate bells to try. Or hunt up some Melk Eb conversions to try first, if you are doubtful about how it might sound.

Any really good craftsman/converter/builder like Melk, Ita, Jones, Akright, Larson, etc., can make you a wonderful Eb. Just make sure you communicate well and get what you think will work for you. It will not be a dog, and if there is a need to tweak or modify it later, that is the price of being the consummate trumpet professional that you are on the road to becoming.
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royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

ExtraLargeBore · Veteran Member Joined: 15 Oct 2009 Posts: 413

I think you would be happier using Bach valves. The valve block influences the sound much more than you would think. Yeah, the getzen valves work great, but it will still be a getzen at heart.
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Bb - Bach 37 #0XXX
C - Bach NY 229 25H #1
Eb/D - Schilke E8L #90210
Piccolo - Schilke P51 (custom 1 valve)
MPS - Bach - 1X 19 throat 117 backbore

Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5072

I think the Getzen valve block will do fantastic. In fact if they had not given me the run around and lied to me repeatedly I would be buying Getzen valve blocks instead of Huxon Gakki. Guess it worked out better for me though......

The valve assembly influences the playing characteristic more then it does the sound. That is why you can take a Bach Bell, braces and leadpipe on an Olds and it will not play or sound 100% Bach.

So I would not worry about the valve assembly. I think the 239 bell is the best choice. The leadpipe will make or break it!
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The only easy day was yesterday!

Jon Kaplan · Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject:

Okay everyone... a little update.

Due to the widely varying responses on this forum one way or the other, plus some of my own re-evaluation, I have decided to post-pone my appointment with Charlie and bide my time. I could easily still decide to do the conversion at a later time, I just don't think I know enough yet to try to make an educated purchase.

More research is in order: thank you for all of your input Heraldites. I will save what you all have shared with me somewhere I can reference it in my on-going search.

Thank you everyone!
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Jon Kaplan
BM Trumpet Performance (In Progress), Arizona State University