dark sounding jazz horn

[ljazztrm]

This is super-helpful to me Doug..thanks so much for all this info! I used to have a 6310b yammie and a 639..gonna check into the 636...I've seen those chinese numbers up on ebay in the past too..all the very best, Lex
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Mouthpieces:
Curry custom 590S2. .590 diameter shallow with Warburton 6 backbore.
Curry custom 590TC. .590 deep V, 27 throat, Warburton 3* backbore.
Trumpets:
Carol black nickel 5000L.
Flugel: Carol satin finish.

[chuck in ny]

lex
i can't imagine you need the same sound continuously through your work day and maybe you can work briefly switching mouthpieces in, it is after all the basic approach to dark sound. so there's just one thought. you are well advised to look after your chops and not self destruct. it's been done.
i find the WT trumpet a dark horn and it's been the easiest horn i have played to get into a dark frame of sound with. frankly also the getzen genesis sounds like a winner, i would love to hear a clip of one.
then you have the flugel for dark sound so you obviously have some need where you can't simply use that. out of curiosity i wonder if the flugel beats your chops up what with the long hours.
you can also try one of flip oakes' extreme trumpet mouthpieces in your existing or any other horn, it's not for steady high note work by any means, but should raise your eyebrow about dark sound, and it doesn't transmute your trumpet into a flugel which similar pieces do.
gear is fun, who's kidding who, tell me you don't enjoy the quest.
..chuck

[crzytptman]

Yeah, I'm using the Extreme Trumpet mouthpiece for everything now. I need to find a horn that will brighten up enough for lead playing. Can anyone suggest a horn that will offset the deep cup, wide open bachbore and #11 drill hole? This mouthiece is super comfortable to play on, but I need to get the sizzle for lead playing . . .
_________________
Crazy Nate aka Jive-a-licious
www.themodernancients.com
www.flipoakes.com
Strive to have a great day, full of learning and enlightenment, using the mind that God gave you.
"Am I really crazy, or just so sane I blow your mind?" - Cosmo Kramer

[razeontherock]

Nate - Callet Superchops.

Lex - some old Bueschers play dark as does a Harrelson Summit, but the Summit is amazingly responsive to mouthpiece choice so these can probably be eliminated. I'm curious to know what you wind up with though! (And as the earlier rant / joke went, I'd think you're wanting a cornet)

[BSTRUMPET85]

Calicchio 3/9 is pretty dark
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Benjamin A. Strickland

[connicalman]

[connicalman]

Seriously, there are several old Conn Victor New Wonders on line for a fair price. Go as old as the pistons are good. Who was it had a copper bell put on an 80A for what I'm thinkin is just what llama's looking for.
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. 28A

[farnellnewton]

Just take a day trip and go visit Trent. You can try all you want.
_________________
Denis Wick Artist 4C & 3E
Cannonball 789-RL Stone Series Trumpet
"The Raven"

Farnell Newton
Professor of Jazz Trumpet
Portland State University

Trumpeter, Composer & Hip Hop Producer
(503) 997-2071
www.farnellnewton.com

[ConnArtist]

[ljazztrm]

Thanks for the extra info Chuck - I have tried many combinations and things over the years. I have found what works consistently the best for me is to keep the very shallow mouthpiece going unless I am doing a classical gig (Curry 81/2c) or a commercial date that isn't too high and loud. Sure, I could take a deeper mouthpiece and do it all for a day or two…but I just don't have the capability to do it consistently night after night for weeks and months. My chops, instead of feeling good and consistent all over the horn would start to tire out after the first couple of days leading into a downward spiral. I am not aware of a player who consistently does extreme high note work on a deep mouthpiece, except for those who have multiple embouchure sets or those who have a lot of lip protrusion into the cup which, in effect, makes a deeper mouthpiece actually shallow. Anyway, I fall into neither of those catagories. I have Flip's extreme flugel pieces..one is SO dark, it's ridiculous…but there are situations where I'll whip it out…I've even recorded some parts with it. I have shallower custom flugel pieces for using the flugel way up high.

Yeah man, the quest is definitely fun! I feel like I'm trying to do something with this experiment that not a lot of cats have tried…the extreme upper register with a dark sound while improvising…and how to make it as easy and efficient as possible…I don't want to be thinking about the mechanics of the horn…or being tired…while I'm improvising…I just want to sing through the horn...

Nate - The Superchops Callet is the brightest horn I'm aware of…but, still, have you ever tried to do anything like this before? Like, I mean not just for a couple of days but, consistently over a period of weeks working gigs? I'd be very curious as how you do it…If you'd write a method book, I'd buy it!

(It also occured to me Nate, that you just wrote that post to be smarmy..not remembering that smarminess has been banned on the TH since 2004! )

Ray - I wound up going with a 'frankenhorn'..maybe more than one from Trent Austin and Doug Meeweusen..will let you know how it works out...

Calicchio 3/9? If I'm not mistaken, that's the Freddie model...Would like to try one of those too...From what I've heard Freddie used a big diameter piece and a shallower cup...in the 70's, 80's...Anyone know what his piece was?
_________________
Mouthpieces:
Curry custom 590S2. .590 diameter shallow with Warburton 6 backbore.
Curry custom 590TC. .590 deep V, 27 throat, Warburton 3* backbore.
Trumpets:
Carol black nickel 5000L.
Flugel: Carol satin finish.

[adagiotrumpet]

Bach MLV with a heavy weight gold brass 65 bell. Dark enough to cause depression.

[crzytptman]

ljazztrm wrote:

[chuck in ny]

Yeah man, the quest is definitely fun! I feel like I'm trying to do something with this experiment that not a lot of cats have tried…the extreme upper register with a dark sound while improvising…and how to make it as easy and efficient as possible…I don't want to be thinking about the mechanics of the horn…or being tired…while I'm improvising…I just want to sing through the horn...


can't say there is any combination of mouthpiece and horn that is going to make something like that easy. everybody blows differently which is the problem making any suggestions.
flip just came out with an L piece which is supposed to be shallow enough for lead yet still allow dark sound. i believe brian/shofarguy has one and gets good results with it. otherwise stay on your normal piece and then it's a matter of trying a good number of different horns to see what responds for you.
difficult isn't even the word for what you are trying. as a random thought, if say your normal shallow piece is a 27 throat, you could try something in the same vein with the throat opened up slightly, one size or two.
you need a lot of sensitivity in getting equipment, that, common sense, and a clear head will get you through. ..chuck

[EdMann]

Yeah, the Bach MLV is a Dark Knight and my old Harrelson Bravura was darker than pitch but still lit up with a shallow piece, in a weird, annoying way, though.

You know what gets me dark? My mood when I look at all the horns I shouldn't have bought.

ed

[ljazztrm]

Sarcasm was banned from the TH in 2007!!! You've got to get with the program Crazy. Your violations are stacking up!

Chuck - Yeah man, I know where you're coming from. I've tried a lot of that already. But it made playing more difficult for me. Not as efficient. I am thinking if I just change the horn, I won't lose efficiency. It will just be a darker sound and less volume...and of course I don't need to be playing 'lead volume' when I do small group jazz. I'm going up above double C when I improvise...and coming back down and back up..all in a single line sometimes...that's just how I like to improvise...I love Chet and Woody and Kenny (who has some amazing chops on the flugel for sure!) but I also love Maynard and Chase and those cats. So, that's where I'm at...
Can you dig it??
_________________
Mouthpieces:
Curry custom 590S2. .590 diameter shallow with Warburton 6 backbore.
Curry custom 590TC. .590 deep V, 27 throat, Warburton 3* backbore.
Trumpets:
Carol black nickel 5000L.
Flugel: Carol satin finish.

[ljazztrm]

Ha! Funny Ed..I'm sure you can sell them and buy some different ones

Anyway, it looks like I'll be going with a couple of 'frankenhorns' from Doug Meeweusen and Trent Austin. I feel good about this because they are very knowledgable and extremely fine cats to do business with. I'll post again about my results with the horn(s) in a few weeks...Best, Lex
_________________
Mouthpieces:
Curry custom 590S2. .590 diameter shallow with Warburton 6 backbore.
Curry custom 590TC. .590 deep V, 27 throat, Warburton 3* backbore.
Trumpets:
Carol black nickel 5000L.
Flugel: Carol satin finish.

[KanstulBrass]

Don't forget about the Kanstul 1500
_________________
Charles Hargett
Sales & Marketing Manager
Kanstul Musical Instruments
www.facebook.com/kanstulfactory

For product information contact us at 888-KANSTUL, or view the Kanstul website, www.kanstul.com

[connicalman]

Hail copper! Kanstul 1500. Yumm.

Ljazztrm: True I'm crazed enough to have a sense of humor, and sound enough to pay close attention. So I offer this: consider the thread begun by Tommy T., he who had DQ's mate a copper bell to his dad's old Conn. I cut and paste one part of a 4-page thread, citing his response to a mpc query.

"Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2011 1:29 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thedevilisbad wrote:

Have you tried it with a trumpet shaped cornet mouthpiece? I mean, I'm sure it will sound like a trumpet that way, but maybe the feel will change as well. I'm just curious.


??? I'm totally unclear as to why I would want to do that since a flugel-like sound with good projection was my goal and I have that in this horn now. Now, if I need a trumpet (most of my playing is on trumpet), I use my Wild Thing. If I need a cornet, I use my Wedgwood. If I need a flugel, I use my 1525. And, if occassionally I would like something kind of inbetween flugel and cornet, I've got this nice copper bell conversion played with a flugel mouthpiece. The side benefit is that I'm playing Dad's horn once in while, not just leaving it in the attic.

Tommy T.
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Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money.
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kochaavim, csillaagkep, αστερρισμός, konnstelacji, connstellation... ...a.k.a. 28A

[Dan O'Donnell]

In the past, I talked with Wayne Bergeron regarding an issue I had with my sound getting brighter as I started getting into the upper register.

He stated that it is normal or typical for people's tone to get brighter in the upper register.

Having stated the above; I rely on my equipment to help calm some of the brightness as I play higher notes.

Regarding the Getzen Genesis; if you listen to Rick Braun on some of his recent CDs (when he was playing a Getzen Genesis before switching to his new horn) you will hear that he has a darker than average sound when he gets into the upper register.

And no...it is not mainly due to any effects (reverb etc.) for those of you who have heard him play live while walking through the audience...it came from his horn not the sound board.

During my visit to the Getzen manufacturing facility; I was told that when Rick play tested the Getzen Genesis, he could make it sound almost as dark as a Flugelhorn.

I have seen him live with his new Trumpet several times and it is very obvious that he now has a brighter tone (using the same MP) throughout his range from low to high.

There is a possibility that he wanted to create a bigger difference in tone between his Flugelhorn (dark) and his Trumpet (brighter) when playing different pieces that require different sounds???
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God Bless,
Dan O'Donnell

"Praise Him with the sound of the Trumpet:..."
Psalms 150:3

[crzytptman]