Bit of a cornet test down under

[p76]

G'Day All,

Was down in the Big Smoke (Melbourne) on Monday for work, and managed to sneak in some time to head to Brass and Woodwind to have a bit of a blow on some new stuff.

First, the disappointing part - the showroom has reduced in size! Not sure why, but did see the repairmen hovering about in the showroom, when they used to have their own shop a few doors down, so maybe the repair shop has moved in - perhaps the times aren't treating horn players well.

Anyway, Brian still had the same cheerful face and manner, and I was having a chat to him about our Band's project to replace our instruments, and he stated that I surely must have a blow on what they had in the shop, to whit - Besson Prestige and Sovereign, Yamaha Xeno (Gold Brass, both in Lacquer and Silver), and, just for fun (because at about $5K our band ain't buying multiples of them) the new Schagerl cornet he had in stock.

Firstly to build quality. As you would expect, given they are all high-end horns, it was top notch. The Bessons won in the weight stakes, with both the Prestige and Sov feeling substantial in the hand. The Xenos were noticeably lighter, and with thinner bells. The Schagerl was lighter again! Both the Prestige and the Schagerl had lovely inlaid valve buttons, the Prestige with some sort of ebony I think, and the Schagerl looked like opal - a nice Australian touch.

Every single horn played differently (all played with a Curry 1.25BBC) - the Xenos both felt very open and easy to play - more trumpet-like in their response than the other horns. The silver-plated one sounded a little more mellow than the lacquer - whether that's a difference horn-to-horn or the silver plate having that effect I don't know. Certainly nice horns to play, but for mine they just don't quite have that "true" cornet sound.

Which both Bessons had, in spades. Both the Sovereign and the Prestige had a wonderful round tone, perfect for hymns, and firming up nicely for a true Brass Band cornet marching sound. They were both a little more difficult to play (more resistance) than the Yams, with the Prestige pushing back quite a bit more than the Sov.

The Schagerl was a different beast. Definitely a European cornet, the sound was delicate - ideal for a soloist, but not sure it would fit well in a Brass Band. I just couldn't get over how light a horn it was. Just not my cup of tea, but it was a truly great horn.

My cup of tea was the Besson Sovereign - loved the tone, and found the more open blow than the Prestige to my liking.

The Yamahas might be a better choice for the band though, given the level of our players - they are easier to play, no doubt. Also, the "Band" pricing that Brass and Woodwind can give me on the Yams (for a multi-instrument buy), works out to be about $500 per instrument less than the Bessons, which essentially means a "free" cornet by the time you buy a section's worth. Besson really need to look at how they price their instruments if they want to keep community bands on their roster.

Did a brief trumpet blast as well, which I'll post in the Horns section here -http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1236737#1236737

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Yamaha YTR732, Olds Super.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Besson 723, Olds Ambassador.
Flugel - Weril Regium II.
Mpc. - Monette B2, Curry 1.25BBC, Wick 4FL

[Eric Ball]

Give Dillon Music (DillonMusic.com) a call for their price before you drop the $ at Brass and Woodwind. I am currently working with them just now on outfitting half of a band. Worth a phone call....732-634-3399.

[p76]

[Eric Ball]

No..Shipped within US...but, You never know what they can do..especially if you're thinking about Yamaha.

[p76]

I think the problem with O/S shipping is that they can't really do that much, they are at the mercies of USPS or FedEx.

I suppose I could ask my sister to bring over eight cornets the next time she visits from her home in Seattle....... ....not sure blood (or baggage allowances) runs that thick!

However, it might be worth an email in their direction.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Yamaha YTR732, Olds Super.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Besson 723, Olds Ambassador.
Flugel - Weril Regium II.
Mpc. - Monette B2, Curry 1.25BBC, Wick 4FL

[etc-etc]

Or, shop at Thomann.de (shipping worldwide for 50 Euro).

[Bob Stevenson]

Roger,

When buying a whole sections worth ALWAYS go straight to the top!......find out who the importer is and then deal direct with them fro the best bulk deal. If they try the "we only sell thru retailers" line either make it clear they are going to lose the sale completely to a competitor or ask that they offer a special deal thru the retailer of their choice......

........For a japanese maker you should be in a good position to get a good deal. If you are not happy with how the importers treat you, don't have any hesitation in approaching yammy in japan and make it clear you don't like the way things are while constantly reminding them that you want 9 cornets 'and perhaps other instuments too'.....It helps enormously when the factory is looking over the importer/dealers shoulder!

Lastly, try 'Trevada Music' here in the UK,...if they can't offer a good price to Ozzy for 9 cornets then I will be surprised!......They would probably get them sent from japan and take the dealers margin here.....I'm pretty sure they have done that before.

[p76]

Thanks for all the advice fellas, we'll definitely be looking at all our options - it sounds like Yamaha are prepared to deal seriously here in OZ, the price we've been offered by B&WW is very good - it's Besson that seems to be off the mark in terms of what they are prepared to do for dealers / bands.

As B&WW say, bands come in and play-test and are divided between Besson and Yam, but when it comes down to talking $$$, Yam wins almost every time. And when the difference adds up to a whole cornet, that speaks for itself.

Such a big job to replace an entire band's stock for a town of 3000 or so. Thankfully we've managed to score some grant money, and the local businesses and footy club and so on have been great. We've managed to snag some v. nice used instruments (EEb Tubas x 2, Sop) from a city Salvo band, we'll grab some cornets, and then it's tenor horn time. Hopefully we'll also be able to put in a plan so that future band members aren't faced with the same problem, by purchasing instruments more regularly.

Busy times!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Yamaha YTR732, Olds Super.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Besson 723, Olds Ambassador.
Flugel - Weril Regium II.
Mpc. - Monette B2, Curry 1.25BBC, Wick 4FL

[GordonH]

I suspect that the Prestige would have felt less stuffy on a Wick mouthpiece. Just a thought. I find the sovereign to be too open a blow for a Wick.
_________________
"I play as I please." (Humphrey Lyttleton)

Bb - Bach 43
Eb - Schilke E3L-4 with D bell and slides
Pic - Chinese rotary with Blackburn lead pipe
Flugel - B&H Imperial
Cornet - B&H Sovereign 928

[Rapier232]

When it comes to Tenor Horns take a serious look at the Yamaha Neo. None better available, in my opinion.
_________________
Blow in the Little End. Noise Comes Out the Big End. Simples!

Taylor VR 46 Trumpet
Smith Watkins K2 Cornet
Eclipse Flugel
JP 152 C Trumpet
Besson Bugle

[trumpethead]

Hi Roger, nice reviews of your experiences with MB&W.

This may not be helpful, as I think we might be two different styles of performers, but thought I'd post anyway.

I bought a CarolBrass Cornet some weeks ago (CCR-3880-GSS) which has become my 'go-to' horn for gigs as I just LOVE this little horn.

I never thought I was a cornet kind of player as I've owned several and never came to grips with them, but this horn is different - so easy to perform on in every way.

Now, as a Brass Band player, I'm probably not fit to carry your horns in to rehersal, but for the Jazz stuff which I play, this horn does everything brilliantly. Easy to play and with such great facility. Like always, mouthpiece choice will make it sound as you'd desire I should think.

As an endorsee, I got mine for a 'very special' price, but I think they are quite reasonably priced anyway and perhaps worth putting in the mix before you make your final choice.
_________________
Peter Uppman
Melbourne, Australia

[p76]

Thanks Peter,

Always value your opinion (in another life for you and me, I bought a Weril Flugel after reading your reports, and am very happy with it).

I've been intrigued by the Carol instruments, and am keen to try them. I've heard that there will soon be a dealer in Australia (or in NSW at least), so I'll try and hunt them out when that happens - maybe that's who you purchased yours from? The 6882 model looks pretty brass-bandy from the specs, so I'm sure they'd have something we could use.

Anytime you're in Creswick on a Thursday night Peter, you're welcome to drop in - I'm sure we'd learn more from you than you would from us, and we do have a nice version of Georgia on my mind that you could work your jazz magic on!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Yamaha YTR732, Olds Super.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Besson 723, Olds Ambassador.
Flugel - Weril Regium II.
Mpc. - Monette B2, Curry 1.25BBC, Wick 4FL

[trumpethead]

You know, I've still kept my Weril Flugel because it's just too good a horn to undersell off - grossly underappreciated Flugelhorn IMO.

Sax and Woodwind in Sydney are to be the new CarolBrass dealers when it all gets finalised. I tried to get Brian at Brass and Woodwind here in Melbourne to look into them, but his comment was something like, "why would I want to carry yet another Taiwanese-made horn" - big mistake I think.

For years, I've been at him to stock/carry a full trumpet/cornet range of mouthpieces that musicians would buy, (you know Bach/Yamaha), but all in vain there too. Even if he paid retail it would still only be a couple of thousand dollars. Nothing when you consider those incredibly expensive horns sitting in their shop. I just don't get it...

I've bought all my Carol horns through Shawn (Trumpetgear) in New Zealand. He's been great to deal with and incredibly helpful. The horns get here usually within a week and with the exchange rate, you'd do quite nicely I should think.

Shawn may even have a 'try-before-you-buy' policy, as he had offered to me.

All the best.
_________________
Peter Uppman
Melbourne, Australia

[p76]

I think that's always the problem here in OZ - there really is nowhere that carries a decent range of stuff to try - B&WW is probably one of the better ones. I'm annoyed that Kanstul and Getzen seem to be impossible to find anywhere, as I'd love to try their stuff. Still, it's better than nothing, and I guess I'm part of the problem, only buying second-hand horns, so not giving dealers an incentive to stock new.

I wonder if Sax and Woodwind will bring Carol down for the MIFB - might get a chance to try them there - another reason to go!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Yamaha YTR732, Olds Super.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Besson 723, Olds Ambassador.
Flugel - Weril Regium II.
Mpc. - Monette B2, Curry 1.25BBC, Wick 4FL

[Flattergrub]

Not to confuse matters but you might want to contact Trevor Bremner and talk to him regarding the Smith Watkins K2 cornets. Some great brass bands playing their horns. Love mine.

http://smithwatkins.com/dealers/dealers-australasia.html

http://smithwatkins.com/products/cornets/cornets-b/professional.html
_________________
Smith Watkins "Soloist" cornet with K2 and T4 leadpipes and Wick 4 Heritage mpc