Yamaha Valve Oil (question and praise)

zackh411

Praise: Is anyone else really impressed by the quality of this stuff? I switched to Yamaha from Al Cass about a year back... I first used it on my Holton (a friend lent it to me when I was out), which hadn't been cleaned properly in years, and it made my valves feel brand new. It also lasts a really long time.

Question: I have a shiny new VR2 (okay, it's technically a shiny used VR2, but its in mint condition). Should I go with the light formulation? I'm assuming that since it's new, and since its such a high quality horn, the valve tolerances are going to be tighter. I use the light formula on my picc... it seems to work better than the regular.
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VetPsychWars · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:03 am Post subject:

Please oil each time before you play. When anyone says 'really lasts' I remember needing a valve rebuild because I listened to that and didn't oil enough. Just because the valve doesn't stick doesn't mean that you are protected from wear.

Oil is cheap. Valve rebuilds are not.

Tom
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delano · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:11 am Post subject:

For thight valves, the Yamaha light oil is terrific. My YTR 6345 will only function on that oil. But even my 1976 French Selmer B700 will only function on this oil.
I would but I can't agree fully with Tom. If I oil my Selmer daily the valves will be slow and sluggish. It cannot handle much oil. The Yamaha 6345 needs daily only one little drop of light. Without it it will indeed suffer from wear. For older instruments I use The Brass Spa H2O oil. Very good for vintage instruments. Also the Classic oil from Yamaha.

zackh411 · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 10:30 am Post subject:

Maarten van Weverwijk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 04 Jan 2006 Posts: 3122

Yeah, Yamaha oil is great stuff.
Their piston oil is really good and their rotary- and key oils are absolutely fantastic (most w.wind players around here use Yamaha products), but sometimes hard to find.

Hetman is my favourite though, mainly because of availability, larger choice of products and the fact that you can mix all Hetman products without any problem, which comes in rather handy in a repair shop.

VetPsychWars · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:50 pm Post subject:

AJCarter · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:00 pm Post subject:

I have a bunch of the yamaha regular synthetic oil. When the brass band started at my undergrad the students just used their al cass and tossed their oil away. I grabbed it up! I use Hetman normally, and then the Yamaha when I'm out of Hetman.

I like how the Hetman and Yamaha oils can mix pretty well with Al Cass.

Lawler Bb · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:40 pm Post subject:

I'm in the camp of oiling once or twice a week, at most. I play 1 to 5 hours a day. Been doing it that way for 20 years and have never had a valve problem. Frankly, most of the time I oil my valves when they start to hang up, which normally is due to having too much condensation (water) mixed with the valve oil. Oiling daily is a waste of valve oil, IMHO.

As for the original poster and whether (or not) to use Yamaha Synthetic Light, just use whatever works. If you've already got a bottle of Light, that's what I would try. Honestly, if you oil on a weekly basis (maybe more often on a new horn), keep your horn clean, don't drink the valve oil, etc. you can use almost any brand and be 100% fine.
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Leonel Leon · Veteran Member Joined: 11 Jan 2011 Posts: 134

That is what I used on my new strad cornet when I got it. Don't have the cornet anymore but I use BiNak now.

Do cheaper oils damage valves?

zackh411 · Posted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:54 pm Post subject:

Trumpcyms1993 · Regular Member Joined: 03 Feb 2012 Posts: 83

dont mix yamaha valve oil with other oils it will mess your valves up. always wash your valves off and dry them before switching the type of oil you use unless its an emergency situation. Advice from a 40+ year repair man of trumpets.
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Brad361 · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 5:26 am Post subject:

trombahonker · Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:29 am Post subject:

Yamaha synthetic oils are great. A while back while at the artist facility in NYC I was told they essentially duplicated Hetman's formulas and that Yamaha synthetics are quite compatible with all Hetman products.

I oil horns I'm using every day right before playing. Stagnant lubricants are supposed to be replenished frequently. The more frequently you oil, the "cleaner" your valves will stay as excess oil will carry metal residue down to the bottom caps (which I try to wipe out along with the bottom of the valve casing every couple days.) The valves don't need to be oiled that frequently to prevent sticking, but I feel like a valve hanging is an extreme case (if from lack of lubrication). It's just good maintenance!

~Aaron

irith · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Sep 2008 Posts: 790

The Yamaha synthetics are fantastic, I've been using them for a while now. I have had zero problems with it. I use the Regular on my Bb, which is a little more worn in, and the Light on my newer C and picc. Ultra-Pure gave me some minor but persistent sticky valve issues.
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Capt.Kirk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 24 Feb 2009 Posts: 5070

First tolerances have not changed much on most horns in a long long time and clearances have not changed much either. Clearances are what you thinking about tolerances have nothing to do with how tight the fit is that is clearance. Tolerance is how close to the blue print they can actually make the parts. Usually designers spec. tighter tolerances then can be achieve by the machinery in use.

As to which oil to use no one can tell that beside you....Clearances on any horn from one valve assembly to another can vary a lot depending on who made the valve assemblies, how old the machines are being used, and a lot of other factors.....Then you have the archaic and only useful if you useing really bad out dated machining practices and equipment hand lapping.....Hand lapping is about as accurate,precise, and repeatable as shooting a pistol while riding on a galloping horse. First all of the pistons going in to these valve assemblies are all different sizes second you are using mechano-recptors in the hands,wrist and elbow to judge the amount of drag on the piston as you push and pull it in the bore with an abrasive on it. The reason they have to hand lapp is because they can not build the piston close enough to the finished bore size of each bore. Hand lapping is accelerated wearing in of the parts to make up for lack of precise machine work.

So because of the above you have to actually try different thickness of oil yourself and based on performance select the best oil. Too thin and horn wears faster then it needs to too thick and the pistons will not return on their own to the up position for some time due to hydro-dynamic wedge effect. Get it as heavy as you can with out that happening and you almost prevent all wear from sliding friction leaving only chemical wear ie corrosion in the form of oxidation. Yes monel oxidizes like any other copper alloy.

Last I checked Monette was the only person making pistons so precise that they do not need to be lapped into the bore. Depending on how clean the valves where kept during break in the rate of wear between two identical horns could vary by a large margin!
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dmb · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject:

Use whatever oil you find that works well for whatever horn you are playing at the time.

But, this does seem odd to me:

"most of the time I oil my valves when they start to hang up..."

.......sorta like waiting for the 'oil light' to come on before checking the oil in your car.
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LittleRusty · Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:46 pm Post subject:

Lawler Bb · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:19 pm Post subject:

cheiden · Posted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:57 pm Post subject:

I oil mostly when I perceive any slowing and also before most all performances. On my Bb using T2 that's fairly rarely. On my Yamaha flugel's relatively tight valves using Blue Juice that's relatively often.
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