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Big Daddy Veteran Member

Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Posts: 270 Location: Los Angeles, California
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dave,
Nice to see a fellow Seagull Guitar owner. I own a Entourage Mini Jumbo Rustic. Great sound. _________________ 2010 Getzen 3895 Custom Flugelhorn
2010 Getzen 3850 Custom Cornet
2009 Bach Stradivarius New York 7
1956 Olds Recording
Monette 6BS1
Monette 6B FL - Cornet
Kanstul C.G. Personal F - Flugelhorn
http://www.reverbnation.com/robertmeyersjazz |
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jhatpro Heavyweight Member

Joined: 17 Mar 2002 Posts: 7297 Location: Chicago area
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone who is willing to try again is not a failure, but someone with high standards. _________________ Jim Hatfield
Glen Ellyn, Illinois
"Unfortunately, music is not my first language." |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member

Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 3276 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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orchestral617 -
Notice that several responders here refer to themselves as crazy. This is no coincidence. If you want to enjoy the trumpet, its challenges and rewards, you NEED to be a little crazy. If you want to do something which doesn't challenge you so much, then pick the guitar or the saxophone. Do easy crossword puzzles and look up the answers.
We go for the hard stuff because a good challenge stimulates us. We thrive on what is difficult, and it is SO rewarding because it is that way. Take a good deep inside look at yourself and you should see someone who has an endless thirst for improvement and growth. If this IS what you see, then stop beating yourself up and accept that in order to be satisfied you need to realize that you are NOT PERFECT. Find pleasure in the fact that you can make progress, even if it is small, on a daily basis. The joy needs to be in the journey and not the destination. Remember that you love the trumpet, that music is a gift from God, and that every note you play is a statement of that gift - even the BAD ones.
If upon self examination, you find that you are not the person I described in the last paragraph, then find something else to do which floats your boat. _________________ veery715
Music is what feelings sound like. |
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spach Veteran Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2007 Posts: 176 Location: yazoo county, ms via northern calif. via central calif. via southern calif.
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to learn something of the challenges, and joys of becoming a top tier trumpet artist, find yourself a copy of Ollie Mitchell's recently published book, "Lost, but making good time: A View from the Back Row of the Band". I'm pretty sure you'll find it more than a little interesting. Ollie's 85, still playing, enjoying life, and sharp as a tack. So, I have to agree with other posters, don't beat yourself up. And btw, you can make your own definition of success, one little piece at a time. _________________ 1934 (or '35) Meha (.460)
Benge 5B, MV 7C mpc
"Where, then, does the soul reside with its better body while it awaits the sound of the trumpet?"--Stephen J. Gould |
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daDavemeister Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Posts: 771 Location: Sonoma, Ca
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Big Daddy wrote: | Dave,
Nice to see a fellow Seagull Guitar owner. I own a Entourage Mini Jumbo Rustic. Great sound. |
Right on! It's funny you mention that in this thread because I just bought it about 6 months ago after realizing that I wanted an "easier instrument" to just play for fun, something that wouldn't stress me out so much when I play it like crap. It's a really nice instrument and some of the best money I've spent recently.
Ok, no more guitar talk. Back to the trumpet related self mental abuse topic...  _________________ Dave Lindgren
Curry 1BCH, Bach 37 Bb, Bach/Osmun 229 C, Yamaha YTR-6610 Eb/D, Seagull S6 Acoustic Guitar |
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lownote Regular Member
Joined: 08 Sep 2007 Posts: 39
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Another stamp of approval: lots of great advice has has been given in this thread, read it!
You're failing time and time again? I'll bet you otherwise. In fact, I'll bet you have at least a 7+ year streak, perhaps 10+ year streak of never failing to do something correctly. The thousands, perhaps millions of times you've put the horn to your face, I bet you've remembered to put the correct end of the horn to your face, the mouthpiece end, 100% of the time. In fact, even under the most extreme of pressure, you've still remembered to put the correct end of the horn to your face! All those many times, that's an extreme accomplishment!
That sounds pathetic on the surface, likely because you've taken it for granted all these years. I don't know, maybe you don't deserve a medal for that, but think of it. If you've taken that for granted, how many finer, more critical aspects of your playing, which others may be missing, are you doing spot on, yet taking for granted?
Something else to think about...
I'm about a year into a serious comeback on trumpet. On top of removing myself from thinking of any audition circuit, I've voluntarily removed myself from the idea of any jobbing scene. After taking tons of pressure off myself, not only am I playing far better than I ever did in my "prime", I'm improving at a far greater pace. I think the whole audition circuit / jobbing scene mentality is that there's multitudes of players going for scant opportunities, and the scant opportunities are drying up, an industrial mindset for lack of better terms. I've taken on a more entrepreneurial mindset to my playing, focusing more on creating opportunities than filling opportunities. Also, I think in business as in music, the person in the greatest position to renege on a deal has the bargaining power. If you have greater opportunities lined up should you lose an audition than the auditioning body has lined up should they lose the opportunity of having you, the confidence will carry over in your playing.
I'm definitely not telling you to give up. However, are you putting the validation of your music career in the hands of the competition, auditioning entities, and etc., or are you the one in the driver's seat? If you don't have yourself in the driver's seat, get there ASAP!
Finally, to sum up this post: Success isn't guaranteed to bring happiness, but happiness is guaranteed to bring success! _________________ Horn:
Bach Stradivarius 72
Mouthpieces:
Jet-Tone 7D
Jet-Tone 7MD
and occasionally:
Bach 1B
Bach 1D |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 7487 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| daDavemeister wrote: | I have a lot of these same issues, and it's good to know I'm not alone in that.
When I think back to the times where music was the most fun to play, the most rewarding, when my chops felt great, I was getting showered with compliments, when I felt I could play anything, I was NOT thinking about playing at all. I would say I was observing. REALLY listening intently to the other players', the overall sound, and not obsessing over what I have to do to play my notes.
It's hard to do at first, but throw your attention outward! Turn on your imagination and let the music take you away. The more you can turn off your inner monologue the better. |
I have a Sister who is a voice teacher, and she calls your idea here "silencing the committee."  |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member

Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 4354 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | A lot of good stuff in this thread. I looked at CrazyFinn's profile to see where he's teaching (it's a long way from St.Paul to Schwab City, TX); his stuff is usually good and he's set a new standard this time.
it. |
Thanks!
| tommy t. wrote: | | (The piccolo player can't read Db -- turns out I can and down an octave to boot. |
As was said earlier by your fellow Texan, Randy - the Db piccolo used to be a common instrument. Crazy.
Why Db? Ok, I'm remembering this from my flute friends in college - but I think that some people in the wind band community thought that the Db piccolo had a stronger tone. I wouldn't know, I haven't heard one knowingly.
Also, Wind Bands are historically derived from Military Bands - back in the 1800's. We all know the Military, in general, likes uniformity. Most of the brass, and many of the woodwind instrument in the ensemble were pitched in friendly flat keys - Bb and Eb for the most part. Trumpets/Cornets and Clarinets in Bb spring out of this trend - orchestral trumpets were often pitched in F back then. The low brass instruments - tuba, trombone, baritone, and euphonium - are pitched in Bb, even though they read concert pitch music for the most part. Saxophones were developed for the Military/Wind Band and pitched in.... Bb and Eb. Lots of Horn parts (as "French" Horn) are pitched not in F like orchestral horns, but in Eb. If you dig through the parts for a piece by Holst - there's usually Horn in Eb parts still in there (if it's an old printing).
So, anyway, the whole Db thing fits into that whole thing. Flutes are really the only holdout in concert pitch.
Anyway, back to the topic... _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Olds Ambassador Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet |
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percivalthehappyboy Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 Posts: 595
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| lownote wrote: | | The thousands, perhaps millions of times you've put the horn to your face, I bet you've remembered to put the correct end of the horn to your face, the mouthpiece end, 100% of the time. |
And if you've gotten this far, things aren't half as bad as they could have been! |
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mchs3d Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 194
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:11 am Post subject: |
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Amen to the Inner Game of Tennis. One of the best performance books ever written. In my opinion, it has better insights than even The Inner Game of Music. Don't worry so much. If you're not having fun, it's time to be done. |
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mchs3d Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 194
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:14 am Post subject: |
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We all know the real issue is that you are using the wrong mouthpiece!  |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 7487 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| mchs3d wrote: | | If you're not having fun, it's time to be done. |
This is in direct contrast to the level of dedication it takes to play trumpet at a high level. Personally, I'm not very good at finding any balance between the two ... |
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mchs3d Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Jan 2008 Posts: 194
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | | mchs3d wrote: | | If you're not having fun, it's time to be done. |
This is in direct contrast to the level of dedication it takes to play trumpet at a high level. Personally, I'm not very good at finding any balance between the two ... |
Well, to clarify my statement, I mean that you should always enjoy playing. The better I get, the more fun it is. I certainly wouldn't dedicate my time to something I don't enjoy. |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 3571 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:47 am Post subject: |
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Great thread!
Playing the trumpet can be a rush but it comes at a cost. If you're dilligent then eventually the thrill will far outshine the ocassional falter. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb
Yamaha 731 Flugel
Kanstul 920 Picc
Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim/Bach 1-1/2C underpart |
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veery715 Heavyweight Member

Joined: 13 Aug 2007 Posts: 3276 Location: Ithaca NY
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| mchs3d wrote: | | razeontherock wrote: | | mchs3d wrote: | | If you're not having fun, it's time to be done. |
This is in direct contrast to the level of dedication it takes to play trumpet at a high level. Personally, I'm not very good at finding any balance between the two ... |
Well, to clarify my statement, I mean that you should always enjoy playing. The better I get, the more fun it is. I certainly wouldn't dedicate my time to something I don't enjoy. | While my level of play is not that high, as an adult I recognize that an opportunity to practice or perform is a gift. It means I have found time among the myriad responsibilities of life, from taking out the garbage, to spending an afternoon with my 4 year old granddaughter, to having to get my butt to work 5 days a week, and more. Every one of those activities is pleasureable if done mindfully (and some are a true delight!), but when I have the chance to blow my horn, I truly appreciate it.
Even so, there are times when the work of improving my playing feels like drudgery. To say otherwise would be a lie. And what that exposes to me the most is that attitude is EVERYTHING. All it takes for me, usually, to turn the drudgery into gratification, is to remember what a gift it is to be able to make music. _________________ veery715
Music is what feelings sound like. |
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Craig Swartz Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005 Posts: 5412 Location: Des Moines, IA area
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| If one considers himself a failure it usually means the failure to meet a certain goal or set of standards. So... has the OP actually set some goals or acknowledged a bar by which to judge one's self or merely want to "sound good" or better than those around him? There is a lot of generic good advice and confession here but I'd suggest setting some realistic goals first, then let the judgement begin after some time attempting to work in that direction. Having a teacher, colleague or mentor to help set them would be a good idea- trying to be better than those around you is a vastly different thing for someone living in W. Armpit, MT than it might be for someone in the Chicago heights or NYC area. Good luck, everyone. |
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tommy t. Heavyweight Member

Joined: 01 Mar 2002 Posts: 2132 Location: Big Thicket, Deep East Texas
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | trying to be better than those around you is a vastly different thing for someone living in W. Armpit, MT than it might be for someone in the Chicago heights or NYC area. Good luck, everyone. |
There follows an example of why you need to define success and failure in terms appropriate for the setting:
I actually lived in W.Armpit, MT during the winter that I rode at Bridger Bowl, Lone Peak and Red Lodge (affectionately called "Red Ledge" by the locals). My public performance outlet was in the coffee shop above the food co-op, playing with an Appalacian String Band every Thursday evening. It wasn't very good and I didn't really fit in very well. But, I was told by the coffee shop manager that over the winter business on Thursday's picked up.
One night, in a familiar Scottish tune, a 16 bar refrain was played by an older woman on the violin. In the last measure, I said "play that again" and I harmonized with her. I said "Over and over -- play two measures, rest two," and we traded off and she began to add some grace notes. "Over and over -- play twice as many notes." Then "Everybody in, one time and finish the piece." The woman was nearly in tears as she hugged me and said "All my life I've dreamed of doing that."
Victories don't have to be big. Sometimes just being a trumpet player is absolutely the best thing in the world.
Get that feelling just once in a while and all the stingers on marches that don't have them, all the ache of Pomp and Circumstance on the eleventh repeat as the last row finally marches in, and the air ball on the high C in Stars and Stripes as the encore on the 4th of July (outdoor concert in Deep East Texas, heat index 102.5) -- all that -- really doesn't matter all that much.
I boot it in public once in while, ususally I find a way out and, sometimes, even my band mates don't know just what happened, but there are a enough moments like that one in W.Armpit that I will never consider my time with the trumpet to be a failure.
Tommy T. _________________ Actually, I hate music. I just do this for the money.
Last edited by tommy t. on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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solo soprano Veteran Member

Joined: 26 Jan 2012 Posts: 403 Location: Point O' Woods / Old Lyme, Connecticut
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| There's nothing wrong with not being satisfied with your playing. That's what makes for progress. But since we all have are limits, myself included, why destroy your chances of ever becoming an outstanding player, while making your life miserable, just because of where your limits happens to be right now ? |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 7487 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Craig Swartz wrote: | | someone living in W. Armpit, MT |
Hey, I resemble that remark! (I also grew up in NJ, 'the armpit of the Nation,' and am currently some 900 miles due west of there, plus a few hundred miles north)
Even so, being 'better than everyone around me' has always been the very worst possible thing for my playing. In fact, just today I was speaking with a nearby bandleader I played primarily keys with last year, and he currently has a keyboard player who's better than I am. I'm looking forward to getting together with that bunch ... |
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razeontherock Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004 Posts: 7487 Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| tommy t. wrote: | | the winter that I rode at Bridger Bowl |
And here I was going to be jealous of you, and make a joke of how I should've went to law school. Then I read the rest of your (very moving) story, reflect upon the fact that I've had many such moments, and remember why I am a musician.
The most recent such thing was a duo I sorta played with upon relocating to WI, noticing they had substantial talent but only like 4 songs between them, and kinda 'taking them under my wing.' Next thing you know we're getting through 22 songs in a rehearsal, knock down some performances, and these 2 next door neighbors come to grips with the fact they really don't want to play the same kind of music. One is a dentist, played trumpet in HS, has a passion for pedal steel guitar, but could never quite figure out what to play. I finally demonstrated music theory and learning relative pitch in a way he could relate to, he took a minute to listen -
next thing you know he's playing right along with the true greats that've made their living on pedal steel in Nashville, volunteering their time for the
"steel guitar club" he formed here in SE WI; the next closest chapter was in Iowa, and it was sort of falling apart in terms of performance venues. So he's got a whole host of talented people who had been just playing by themselves, out and about, making actual music together, publicly, and is known as "Dr Steel." And I don't even have to be support staff to keep it functioning anymore! (Be that on bass, keys, BGV's, sound, or whatever) And the other half of that duo is also performing, happy as a clam, being 10x louder than anyone has a reason to be. (I don't have to play with that bunch to keep it afloat either)
Life may not always be good - but music always makes it better. (And then there's the blues) |
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