How can I get a darker tone?

[Iceray]

I play on a pretty shallow warburton mouthpiece with a small diameter, because i can NOT play comfortably in any large or even medium mouthpieces. however, i am trying to get more of a 'classical' tone, which is dark and big. my current tone most people describe as bright, and although i have a very clear and nice tone, i want to make it darker. how can i do this WITHOUT switching mouthpieces??

[Conn Collector]

[Troy Sargent]

the fact is youll really need to switch to get a true symphonic sound. However focusing on tone, doing long tones, and focusing on keeping your throat/chest/mouth open you can achieve a darker sound..... keep in mind though in a major symphony most people play mouthpieces larger than a 1-1/2 c some people a lot larger....
_________________
French Besson Bb
"Classic" French Besson C (Najoom Leadpipe)
Vincent Bach Strad. Model 182 Flugelhorn (1972)

[irith]

As much as people say it doesn't matter what you play on, the fact of the matter is that there are not many (if any) symphonic trumpeters playing on anything shallower than a C cup. There are a couple (probably in the region of 1% of orchestral pros) playing on things narrower than a 1.5C, but those that are generally compensate with a bigger throat, backbore, and/or cup depth.

Your inability to play on bigger pieces is probably mostly in your head. That said, you should take baby steps on the path to larger pieces. Start with a deeper cup in your current diameter (the MC Warburton cup is a logical first move), maybe a more open backbore too (2 sizes bigger maybe, or the * series of your current BB) . What exactly are you playing on currently?

Also, the importance of listening and sound modeling cannot be overstated. Listen to the players that sound the way you want to as much as possible, and keep that sound in your head whenever you play. Take some time to play long tones and slow, lyrical stuff every day, really honing in on how you want to sound. I also like the description of a "warm" sound better than a "dark" sound, from a mental perspective, but that's me being nitpicky.

From a more technical standpoint, relaxation and air support are extremely important to getting a more rounded sound. Make sure you get full, relaxed breaths. Relaxation may very likely be a contributor to your issues with bigger pieces; they punish you more for inefficient playing habits. I would look into that.
_________________
Trumpets.
Mouthpieces.
I have some.

[razeontherock]

I would say you should get a Warburton XD cup in your current rim size, and a backbore many sizes larger to go with it just so it doesn't "back up" on you. I wouldn't fool with anything smaller than a 10, probably open the drill size to at least a 24, and maybe even go straight for the 12.

I found Warburton's D cup to work well with cornet, and some long cornets look like trumpets. I know you want to do this on your current set-up but sorry, I don't think that's gonna happen. At the same time in College I always "played too bright" for orchestra, and yet orchestras use C trumpets to sound brighter

[trombahonker]

You can't race Formula 1 in a Civic. Get a standard orchestral mouthpiece and play it until you can.

~A

[chrisfpate]

What has helped me build up to a larger mouthpiece has been to do it gradually. Personally, I can play on smaller diameters of pieces but I prefer deeper cups, and this of course varies with all players. I don't know what piece you currently play on, but I would gradually increase the size of the mouthpiece by whatever specs you want, so you can get used to playing on larger mouthpieces. It's possible! It will always take some time getting used to new mouthpieces so don't get discouraged if you're not used to it by an hour in. Best of luck to you!

[Iceray]

well i am currently playing on an 8sv (shallow and small diameter)

ill try adjusting to a bigger one,but with bigger mouthpieces, my lips ALWAYS fall into the cup, how can i stop this???

[KingSilverSonic]

If you are going to keep your mouthpiece then a gold brass, red brass, or copper bell would help. A bronze leadpipe would cause the lights to short out.
_________________
Richard

Burbank Benge Bb
Burbank Benge C
King Silver Sonic Cornet
King Silver Sonic Symphony 20 DB
Lawler flugelhorn
Member: Bugles Across America

[Adam V]

[Pete Anderson]

Be careful. A bright sound is not necessarily such a bad thing.

I remember a while back, Mr Clean posted something that basically said "many players try to artificially darken their sound by lipping everything down, and end up with a dead, flat sound."

Fwiw. Don't obsess about this too much imo.

[razeontherock]

[gasman]

hear it
_________________
Matt Gas
-///-<

[Nonsense Eliminator]

A Warburton 8SV is tiny. Unless you have very unusual facial structure, you're not going to get a characteristic orchestral sound on that.

Talking about sounds is difficult. Certainly, "dark" means different things to different people, and Mr. Clean isn't the only one who objects to sounds that people think are dark but are actually dead and flabby. But that doesn't mean that warm, rich, complex sounds are bad, and I think that's what most people mean (or ought to) when they say "dark."

We need to start by producing a sound that is vibrant, resonant, and unforced. That means playing a mouthpiece we can handle. But playing with a natural sound on an 8SV will generally lead to a sound that lacks the depth, richness, and warmth of playing with a natural sound on a 1.5C. Trying to create the illusion of "darkness" on an 8SV will require almost all players to manipulate the sound in a way that makes it less vibrant and less brilliant. That's bad. The only solution (for virtually all players) will be a different mouthpiece.

The first steps are obviously the cup, throat, and backbore. Depending on exactly how "symphonic" you want to sound, that may do the trick. You may get close enough for a high school band, but it's quite likely that to get a truly symphonic sound you will have to gradually get used to playing larger diameter mouthpieces.
_________________
Richard Sandals
NBO ~ HSSB ~ TNB

[AJCarter]

+1

Talk to your teacher too, if you have one. Keeping your embouchure set and firm SHOULD prevent your lips from "falling into the cup"

I agree that a move towards a larger mouthpiece should be made but I think going from an 8sv to a 1 1/4 C would be too drastic of a change. Others have said baby steps and I agree with that method of thinking. Talk to your teacher.

[Adam V]

A couple years ago I went straight from a Warburton 8SV (.620" diameter--like a Bach "12", shallow cup) to a Greg Black "Fornero" (~.665, 3C-type cup) right away, and it only took me a week or two to adjust completely.

Don't know if a switch that drastic would work for you, but I'm just letting you know that it can be done!
_________________
http://adamvanvleet.weebly.com/about.html

[Lboretrumpets]

Get a Bach 1A, 18 throat, 87 backbore. If you don't fall in (it's a toilet bowl with a backbore), you'll get a fat orchestral tone... for 5 minutes. Keep working and you'll build up. Just keep your chops together, and don't let them fall in.
_________________
Bb- Stomvi Mambo
Bb- Custom Strad
Flugelhorn- Hunter NY

[nieuwguyski]

You probably can't achieve your stated goal on your current mouthpiece.

And you probably can't play in a professional symphony with a rim diameter that small.

But you should be able to get a darker sound with a deeper cup in your current diameter, probably coupled with a larger backbore.

The "bigness" of your sound will probably ultimately be limited by the diameter you consider yourself stuck with.

But you didn't state that your goal was to play in a major symphony, but that you wanted "more of a 'classical' tone."

A deeper cup would be a good first step.
_________________
J. Notso Nieuwguyski

[MacMichael]

[GenoValet]