Out of breath?

[myshkin_]

I'm sure this is a common problem but it's bugging me quite a bit. Later in the day when I've had a few practice sessions, I get a problem with what feels like running out of breath and any higher notes I'm trying to get (I'm still only working from C to G on the staff) I get a problem of not reaching the note and wavering. This even happens if I take a deep breath.

I'm quite healthy, cycle a lot so thought I'd have a bit more stamina, but perhaps it is because I've been playing quite a bit all day... I put it down to breathing technique. As far as I'm aware I'm using my diaphragm and concentrating on breathing from there as opposed to the chest.

Any ideas?
_________________
JTR 606M

"I'll play and tell you what it is later"

[Craig Swartz]

Are you able to take in a full breath or are your breathing muscles all tight by then? I have similar probs if I don't do some breathing exercises after my daily 3-5 mile run. I even breath with the running steps to try to keep from tightening up.

[jungle jim]

very interesting. thanks for your comments.

[solo soprano]

[irith]

It is most likely tension. Tensing up, especially in the neck will restrict your airflow and make it feel like you can't fill up the horn. I would spend some time working on breathing specifically, making sure you stay completely relaxed as you inhale. Try to play immediately after inhaling - holding the breath before playing, even for a moment, invites some serious tension. In general, making your setup more relaxed goes a long way to improving your overall playing. Don't try to manipulate too much; relaxation will feel different. Follow the sound.

To help with relaxing, you could look into yoga or Alexander Technique.
_________________
Trumpets.
Mouthpieces.
I have some.

[rooster7]

This is a great question, and I'm sure has alot of different answers. A couple of years ago, I started a forum question about playing Clarks Etude 5 in one breath. I couldn't do it. I still can't do it.
About a year ago, I was doing some warmups with Irons 15. Usually I hold the note for about 8 beats. But, I decided to play the note for as long as I could hold my breath. To my suprise, I couldn't hold my breath for much more than 16 beats, which is about 16 seconds. Sometimes, I could get up to 20 beats. It didn't matter if I played PP or MF, I got the same results. So, in retrospect, I now know why I can't play Clarks Etude 5 in one breath. Clarks Etude 5 takes about 42 seconds to play.
So what did I learn from that? When I play certain music passages that requires me to hold my breath for more than 16 to 20 seconds, I look for measures where I can take a breath of air without compromising the outcome of the music I'm playing.
You might want to try what I did and see how long you can hold a note and then work from there. Another factor that can have a huge impact and breath control is stress. You might find yourself needing more air if you are letting stress get the best of you. Stress can really take its toll when it comes to air. I find that when I come across a stressful passage, is to stop and play the passage over and over again until I not only get it right, but find myself using less air. That's not something that you can fix overnight. You have to work on it. Just be aware of when its happening and make corrections.
Thats my .02. I hope it helps.
Mark

[Martin Committee]

Practice softly.

[razeontherock]

[garrett901]

When your cycling (or running/jogging etc...) try to regulate your breathing rhythmically. That is inhale for 8 counts and then exhale for 8 etc... This will get your body "used to" breathing and using the O2 supply in your lungs in a rhythmic / musical fashion as opposed to just in and out like during exercising. Brass playing IS a physical activity. If your body thinks it's just performing another aerobic exercise it's going to want to revert to that O2 utilization, not what you want when your trying to deliver a sustained musical passage.

This is very similar to doing the breathing exercises suggested by Mr Claude Gordon.

Just a thought...
_________________
Jeff Garrett
Playing "G" Soprano Bugle, Freelancers Alumni/Mini Corps
NorCal Horn Line Instructor/Musical Arranger
Kanstul G Soprano (Powerbore Bell)
Yamaha YTR-739T
Xtream XZ w/ XXX backbore GREAT MP!!!
http://freelancers-alumni.org

[solo soprano]

Claude Gordon Breathing Exercises:

NOTE: Start by standing than move on to walking, and jogging

1. Start at a comfortable pace, and with each step take in a short breath through your nose. Gauge it so you are full on the fifth step. KEEP THE CHEST UP !

2. Walk five more steps, holding the chest up and the lung full.

3. Walk five more steps, while letting the air out through your mouth. Gauge it so you are empty on the the fifth step. ( Chest stays up.)

4. Walk five more steps, holding the chest up with the lungs empty.

5. Repeat the cycle, going two or three blocks.

6. Each week add one breath until you can go TEN IN, TEN HOLD, TEN OUT, AND TEN EMPTY.

7. When you can do the TEN BREATH CYCLE for one mile without dropping the chest, you are ready for the jogging exercise. Drop back to the Five Breath Cycle, and start jogging instead of walking. Build up to the Ten Breath Cycle gradually. When you can jog one mile using the the Ten Breath Cycle, keeping the chest up for the entire distance, you will have acquired the habit of keeping the chest up comfortably while breathing.

Bill Knevitt

[joeptrumpet]

It sounds like it could be a variety of things. Make sure that the soft part of the lip is not in too much of a pucker. The rim should be outside of the lip area on top and bottom.

Also keep the corners back and usually slightly down. Keep it relatively relaxed and not tense.

Incorporate timed breathing into your cycling.. Try to expand the time out as you work out. Good luck.

[stanton]

Though no one but you can determine the cause of your issues, but perhaps I can suggest something that can help.

Get an Inspirometer. Its one of those devices that a respiratory therapist gives patients after a surgery. Basically, you suck on it while keeping the dial in the middle until the float rises to the top. It helps you make sure you are taking full breaths. I know a lot of trumpet guys that promote its use, but I didn't understand how it helps until two months ago when I was under full anesthesia. I'll take a picture of mine later when I get a chance.

Stanton
_________________
Schilke B1, Bach 37, 1969 Getzen Severinsen Eterna
Bach C 229 w Charlie Melk custom work
Getzen Eterna Cornet, Benge #5 Fluegel
Kanstul Besson Prototype A/Bb Pic
Crappy old Yamaha 3valve Eb
Stanton Kramer "Signature" Mouthpiece

[cheiden]

I once had issues with feeling like I was out of breath. The culprit was that in my zeal to inhale fully that I got to where I wasn't exhaling fully. When you don't do a good job of purging your lungs the excess CO2 can cause you to feel "out of air".
_________________
"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb
Yamaha 731 Flugel
Kanstul 920 Picc
Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim/Bach 1-1/2C underpart

[myshkin_]

Thanks for all the replies Lots of food for thought here. Stress seems to have been the culprit, and playing softer seems to have made a difference. I'll also try those breathing tips when cycling.

Cheers!
_________________
JTR 606M

"I'll play and tell you what it is later"

[Ed Lee]

[mrocha1]

you don't need to blow a lot of air, you just need good compression of the diaphragm which comes with taking a good breath

[HornnOOb]

Maybe you're playing too much in a given day. Take it easy for a while and take only one practice session a day for a while. Rest during your practice exercises.

Let your chops catch-up.
_________________
I rode in on a horse and can't seem to get out of L.A.

Severinsen LA Destino 3*
1971 Getzen Eterna Severinsen Model
1951 Olds Special Cornet

Denis Wick 1C Heavytop