strategy for practice

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: strategy for practice

what is the best way to practice, i have been doing mine in one session with of course appropriate rests between exercises. the sessions have been very slowly getting longer as the playing firms up. the scheme works pretty well and really no complaints.
say the deal was split into two or more sessions, a bit more work could be fit in, and either it's a clever plan for greater progress, or something that would overburden the embouchure and cause a backslide.
so what's wit dis.
..chuck

royjohn · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:33 pm Post subject:

Chuck,

You and I have talked before via PM, so I know you are a very smart and discerning guy who won't ignore the subtlest of bodily and/or musical signals. My money is on two shorter sessions being better than one long one, but for many it depends on what kind of time constraints they have.

Reinhardt thought that very low and very high placement embouchures required more short rest periods and that medium high placement players could play longer but then needed to rest longer. What's true for you is something you can find out by being very attentive and maybe keeping a playing diary, noting what you are playing and how long you play and rest. If you vary the routine and note the times, I'm sure a clear pattern will emerge for you. Resting as much as you play is a nice maxim, but what does it mean? Play 30 minutes and rest 30 minutes or play 3 minutes and rest 3 minutes or ??? I know my answer, and you and others can find theirs. I suppose a long uninterrupted session once in a while would help you establish how long you can play on a gig.

One can find various things to do during the off-face time, including non-trumpet tasks and some music related ones, like fingering the valves while off face, whisper practice to establish tongue levels in your music, musical and interpretation analysis, putting in breath marks, etc. Like any other structured activity, organization is key. When I read stuff by Jens Lindeman and Chris Gekker and people at their level, I am amazed at how organized they are in their practice routines and how much time they put in. We non-pros may not be able to devote the same amount of time, but that makes the organization part all the more important.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject:

royjohn
it's going along pretty well to date. before the CG lessons i was chagrined by my lack of endurance. at this point i am slowly but surely extending the amount of daily playing. it's not all roses but definitely going in the right direction and considering the size of the task, pretty good stuff.
also considering putting in an extra session just to have fun and play some tunes. last half year it's all been exercise books, and to my both amusement and shame they have proven musically satisfying. what's up with that. i suspect it's the inner spirit of jazz music, the exercises are the theme, exactly how you practice them, the variation on the theme.
..chuck

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:25 pm Post subject:

Chuck, the important thing is to put the horn down while your chops still feel good. Always maintain a playing reserve. Build up, don't tear down. (All Reinhardt quotes, all of which I'm still guilty of violating far too often) There may be some validity to that comparison to placement Roy talked about; I play with a pretty high placement, and I only post here when I'm taking a break from practicing. Some good insight into why this is so here:

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=117565&highlight=

Bottom of the page, by ThadJones

chuck in ny · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:13 pm Post subject:

razor
i used to play to the point of chop exhaustion figuring exercise is to the good. then the CG lessons and some instruction on play and rest.
anyhow right now i play what the chops can handle. i don't stop when the chops are still fresh, more when they are a little tired but plenty of gas left in the tank. i feel you can't baby the thing and you have to beat yourself up just a little bit and not think much of it.
..chuck

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:39 pm Post subject:

Heh. 2 more Reinhardt terms: baby it in, and knock it in. Some days require one approach, some the other

crzytptman · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:06 pm Post subject:

Wrong forum, knuckleheads . . .
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www.themodernancients.com
www.flipoakes.com
Strive to have a great day, full of learning and enlightenment, using the mind that God gave you.
"Am I really crazy, or just so sane I blow your mind?" - Cosmo Kramer

royjohn · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:23 pm Post subject:

Nate,

I apologize, I thought we were in the Fundamentals forum and didn't double check. Believe me, I would not post anything but an inquiry in this forum except by mistake. The Gordon forum is well known for the purity of its point of view.

Long Live "forget the lips!" Going back where I belong. Moderators, feel free to delete my post.
_________________
royjohn
Trumpets: 1928 Holton Llewellyn Model, 1957 Holton 51LB, 2010 Custom C by Bill Jones, 2011 Custom D/Eb by Bill Jones
Flugels: 1975 Olds Superstar, 1970's Elkhardt, 1970's Getzen 4 valve
Cornet: 1970's Yamaha YCR-233S . . . and others . . .

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 8:50 pm Post subject:

crzytptman · Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:31 pm Post subject:

I've done it myself . . .

_________________
Crazy Nate aka Jive-a-licious
www.themodernancients.com
www.flipoakes.com
Strive to have a great day, full of learning and enlightenment, using the mind that God gave you.
"Am I really crazy, or just so sane I blow your mind?" - Cosmo Kramer

chuck in ny · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:31 am Post subject:

no kidding, pedals strictly verboten? glad i went with the CG camp finding pedals both satisfying and helpful, one of the great things about the approach really.
what possible harm... anyhow interesting to compare the different systems.
..chuck

tommy t. · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:59 am Post subject:

EricV · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:02 pm Post subject:

Tommy
Totally agree re John Mohan....very very helpfull
Eric
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CG Benge trumpet
Yamaha Xeno Cornet

David Roberts · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:13 pm Post subject:

razeontherock · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject:

chuck in ny · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:27 am Post subject:

okay latest wrinkle to this saga. i have been playing the lesson material, more or less straight through with appropriate rests. it isn't too much or anything like that.
later on i am playing some time out music on the cornet, ballads and standards, with plenty of rest. sum total is a lot more playing time every day, and it feels like the routine can be slowly extended. going back each day to lesson material playing there is little evidence of fatigue or burn out syndrome.
all of a sudden then i am feeling much more like a player than a bird with a broken wing. i don't understand why the workload can now be greatly increased, other than perhaps there was merit in taking it easier in the beginning.
lack of range is one thing. it's easy to deal with because there is no problem at all attaining range. it's slow, but you stay with it, and it simply comes. lack of endurance is another thing. it's discouraging and somewhat humiliating. you have a trumpet that can only be played a bit, and mostly not. are you a player, or not, mostly not.
long and short of things i am very glad to be over this hump. i would like to be limited in practice by the hours in the day. this comes at about exactly one year since jeff purtle put me on the straight and narrow.
..chuck

solo soprano · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 1:42 pm Post subject:

chuck in ny,
For most players, to strengthen the muscles, one must progressively put greater demands on them. But this must be done very gradually, and in small increments. You must be very careful not to overdo. So by resting sufficiently you can get stronger after every practice session.

chuck in ny · Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:07 pm Post subject:

solo
thanks for the admonition. i'm a little drunk with my recent success at extending the playing time.
i had been ridiculously careful with making slow addition to the workload, and for quite a long time.
you know i still don't understand these muscles. they are certainly delicate enough to only strengthen quite gradually. then there's the sense quite often when playing that you are somehow blowing easier and it's not that much the muscles at all. it's like a weightlifting paradigm and then not at all like one. i would be about as happy to consider the matter a mystery.
..chuck

chuck in ny · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:18 pm Post subject:

update to this.
i can't get into a reasonable two session per day scheme and am about as well playing through the routine with appropriate rests.
what i did find was that playing ballads for joy and fun were beginning to drag things down. it really is a matter of very slow incremental progress.
funny thing, taking extreme care with the dose.
..chuck

razeontherock · Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject:

Interesting how the line between one session or smaller sessions can get blurred

What's nice is to just pick it up at anytime, and have this plumbing co-operate with you!