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mcgovnor
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 1738
Location: ny ny
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 Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 7:14 pm Post subject: sometimes |
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| Sometimes, it's wiser and just better to take the good, with the bad, and lay off the name calling, in public. Buying and selling succeeds for all concerned when there is the freedom to make offers, and to decline or accept them, based upon need, without emotions taking a front seat. Then, of course, gratitude for a successful sale or purchase and the desire to repeat the process..takes some.......... wisdom. |
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 7487
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| pushyred wrote: |
But I needed to vent and perhaps expose the guy. It is so foreign to me how some people can be so willing to live that way. I think at some point we have to stand up for what's right.
I mean, if the 16 year old is having a "hormone attack" and being rude, you have to call them on it. Otherwise they learn that being rude is OK. |
The Joisey boy in me is thinking maybe it's time for some a yous guys who still live on the East coast to take a little road trip to see a certain Marek Skwarczynski - and be sure to bring cousin Vinny, on account a how it would be a terrible ting if hotdealsmoko1 were to ... get into an, accident or something.
Oh and I'm no fan of those used car salesman tactics either. If you're going to sell it to me for $5,000, don't ask for 10. Insulting isn't the point; it's bad business. |
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 1978
Location: TN
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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I believe that I know who that person is; at least, what his ebay id is. He sells a lot of high-end trumpets and mouthpieces from Poland.
I feel that low-ball offers are just part of the game. Yeah, trying to convince you that he knows more than you is being a bit of an ass, but, unfortunately, all too often it works and the ass is rewarded while the good, kindly person gets taken advantage of.
It helps to have your experience out here in the open for others to learn from and be wary of. Thanks for posting!
I am glad it worked out for you in the end.
-- Joe |
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 7487
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| cjl wrote: | He sells a lot of high-end trumpets and mouthpieces from Poland.
I feel that low-ball offers are just part of the game. |
Knowing that Schilke is top notch, and deliberately telling a seller otherwise? That's not part of any "game" I want to play. Call me old school, but I think integrity counts. |
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Scott42486
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Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 445
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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I won't go so far as to name names but there is a person in my city that does something similar. He haunts craigslist. I've posted three horns up on craigslist and he's made offers on all three. For less than HALF my asking price. Each time he's even tried to justify his offer, "explaining" why I won't get anything anywhere near my asking price. I managed to get my asking price (or really close to it) on all three.
Now the part that will REALLY get you? At the bottom of all three inquiries he sent from me he has one of those e-mail tags. Which of course is a tag for his business where he re-sells.
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 1978
Location: TN
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| razeontherock wrote: | | Knowing that Schilke is top notch, and deliberately telling a seller otherwise? That's not part of any "game" I want to play. Call me old school, but I think integrity counts. |
Great! I would not be afraid to buy from or sell to you.
But while it is not part of a game you want to be involved in (me neither, for that matter) you have to acknowledge that many do. Remember the thread a while ago where hotdeal cheated someone out of $500 or so on a Committee that he bought from them by claiming it was in worse condition than advertised? ebay helped him to get away with that scam, too, all because the seller was innocent and ignorant of his tricks.
The sad reality is that there are many buyers and sellers without morals. Caveat emptor. And whatever the latin would be for the seller, too!
-- Joe |
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mchs3d
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Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Posts: 195
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm afraid Schilke is actually of little to no value so you should just sell them all to me. I'm feeling generous and will offer $2.50 per pound of metal. |
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razeontherock
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 05 Jun 2004
Posts: 7487
Location: The land of GR and Getzen
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| Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| cjl wrote: | Caveat emptor. And whatever the latin would be for the seller, too!
-- Joe |
caveat venditor: tacit warning to the sellers that, unless they expressly disclaim any responsibility, they will be held liable if the sold items are found defective in any way or vary from the specifications.
So I'm not sure how certain people are having E-Bay defend them (just remember not to wash their horns! Apparently it's damaging to their new clothes?) |
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pushyred
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: |
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how do you delete a post?
Last edited by pushyred on Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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pushyred
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 603
Location: Maine
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:07 am Post subject: |
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Anyone who wants to know can PM me and I'll give you his ebay ID. I guess I'm afraid to post it here after all of this.
Here's a hint: Sounds like second part of the name of a popular board game + 3 number designation for an airliner made by Boeing first built in 1963. |
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Irving
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2003
Posts: 858
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:14 am Post subject: |
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| I have had dealings with the aforementioned seller. He is legit, and he will point out any defects in the horns that he sells. I would not bad mouth him in a public forum just because you weren't happy with an offer that he made you on a horn. You are free to accept or decline any offer. Why take it so personally? |
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trumpaholic
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1249
Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:29 am Post subject: |
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The best thing to do is NOT reply to low ball offers, I have found that to be the best way of dealing with a few individuals who scam and cheat!
" Remember the thread a while ago where hotdeal cheated someone out of $500 or so on a Committee that he bought from them by claiming it was in worse condition than advertised? ebay helped him to get away with that scam, too, all because the seller was innocent and ignorant of his tricks. "
Yes, it was 500.00 and I am the guy who sold the Committee to him and refunded 500.00 after he claimed that the lacquer was not original. The cost was 2100 after the refund, and he immediately offered it for sale with a buy it now of 5,000.00 claiming the lacquer was indeed original.
The person who made the low ball offer has 13 adds here on the TH. He buys in the US and sells in Europe where items sell for much more.
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veery715
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Aug 2007
Posts: 3291
Location: Ithaca NY
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| pushyred wrote: | I know what you mean about an easier way to live. Even at my age I still assume the best of people and I'm disappointed when they turn out not so noble. I think that's good and I'm gonna stay that way. Don't have much choice really; its who I am.
But I needed to vent and perhaps expose the guy. I think about all the predators out there taking money from the elderly or others who are vulnerable. It is so foreign to me how some people can be so willing to live that way. I think at some point we have to stand up for what's right.
I mean, if the 16 year old is having a "hormone attack" and being rude, you have to call them on it. Otherwise they learn that being rude is OK. If we just let bad manners go unchecked where does that leave us as a society? as a species?
Anyway; I think we can all go to bed knowing that as a whole the trumpet community is made up of a bunch of really good people who mean well and in the end will look out for each other.
Thanks for participating in my healing process!
After thought: Would it surprise you to know that I spent 10 years in the telecommunications sales business? |
Well, you seem to have recovered!
I do agree that we should be honest when we feel someone is not behaving correctly. Just that we should do it without judgement or resentment.
I also agree that this community is good one, supportive as we are of one another, and always seeking to be helpful.
You're welcome, btw!
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veery715
Music is what feelings sound like. |
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RogersBrass
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Joined: 11 Nov 2009
Posts: 514
Location: Chicago, IL
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| Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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pushyred,
Good for you...I enjoyed hearing about your experience. There is a cross-section of humanity on ebay....and if you are lucky, you won't meet all of them.
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Usedtobegood
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 211
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:45 am Post subject: Re: Insulting offer from buyer (rant) |
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| roynj wrote: | | I don't think it's all that uncommon to get low ball offers, especially from other cultures who bargain for everything that they buy. Certainly don't take it as an insult. Life is too short to get upset about these kinds of things. |
I agree with the above statement, I have had numerous exhaustive foreign negotations that result in what you think is a final deal, including a signed term sheet, only to be subjected to an attempt to renegotiate the deal at closing. My understanding is in many cultures they would be insulted or couldn't save face if they didn't attempt to better the deal.
I learned to not take it personal, it's business and there is no guilt on your part in just saying no.
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1973 Yamaha 631 Flugel
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shmo_joe
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 184
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Insulting offer from buyer (rant) |
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many ebay buyers make insults and threats hoping that price will go down
| pushyred wrote: | Ok, it's been...hmm...perhaps years since I have gone down this path but here goes.
Back Story:
I recently (yesterday) sold my 1 month old Schilke S42 to a very nice gentleman who happily paid my asking price. Basically he got a brand new Schilke for the price of a used one. Yeah for both of us!
Rant Section:
Previously I had received a completely insulting offer for $500 less my price. I pointed this out and said that might be an OK price for a 5-7 year old Schilke.
I felt his reply was even more insulting and condescending. He told me that because he's in Poland he has to pay 26% tax (not my problem) and that he's had over 100 horns and knows the market "very well". That Schilkes are "hard to sell"; good luck.
Well thanks Jacek. Your wishes for good luck worked! JERK!
Michelle Kingston
BIC at Michelle Kingston Music Service !
Thanks for listening; I'm feeling much better  |
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jakepainter
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Joined: 23 Dec 2001
Posts: 120
Location: London
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:09 am Post subject: |
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Just thought I'd post this before this guy's livelihood is completely trashed.
I bought an 80's bach strad off him recently, super horn, great price , and quick postage from Poland to UK.
I am very pleased with my purchase from him and would recommend him without hesitation to others.
Jake
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Craig Swartz
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Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 5416
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:52 am Post subject: |
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If someone makes an offer on anything one is selling that they can refuse, just say "no, thanks" and move on. I make offers on guns, horns, boats and other things of value all the time, usually on things that people need money for in a hurry or perhaps have inherited and have no use for. I generally will give more than a pawn shop and I never force anyone to do business with me.
I've made more than a few transactions here (as well as on Ebay and Craigslist) in both directions and have never had anyone who has done business with me upset with the transactions. I have been trashed by lurkers here but they usually had no money nor interest in the product, just people standing around wishing and espousing an uniformed opinion, for the most part. To date I've never backed down from an offer to pay and that's more important to my own personal integrity than the price. If one makes an offer they should be prepared to follow through. I can't count how many times I've had dip***ts make offers on things I have that they couldn't/wouldn't honor when I'd accept, always saying, "Uh, I'll think about it." Don't make offers you can't back up and don't sell for what you can't accept.
Individuals and businesses that buy items to resell often tie up real money for quite some time before things sell. The only "killing" made is when someone buys an item for which he already has a waiting buyer, even then there's a chance he'll be stuck with his purchase for some time over some technicality.
Get over it... |
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hose
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Joined: 29 Jun 2003
Posts: 1601
Location: Tampa Bay area
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:08 am Post subject: |
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Hey, we're trumpet players!  I didn't think we could be insulted. Especially if we play in ensembles. 
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Craig Swartz
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2005
Posts: 5416
Location: Des Moines, IA area
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| Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| hose wrote: | | Hey, we're trumpet players! I didn't think we could be insulted. Especially if we play in ensembles. |
Man, you don't know the half of it. There are some extremely thin-skinned folk who troll around this site...  |
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