besson for sale

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:38 am Post subject:

http://www.wwbw.com/Item/?itemno=115979
_________________
1946 Martin Committee, Bach 5V

ARB · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:24 am Post subject:

Good looking horn.
_________________
Allen - 'Chops-in-Hotlanta'

00 Schilke S22
77 LA Benge 5X
63 Burbank Benge C

"It's what we think we know that keeps us from knowing"

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:23 am Post subject:

OK! Question....
Look at the taper of the bell. WHY DIDN'T BESSON "FINISH THE FULL RADIUS TO THE BELL?????

As weirdly funny looking Monette and some of the new breed of cornets and trumpet often appear with strange shaped bells and some. feature not only a bell with a completed full radius...but also others such as Monette, push that design evelope, even further with a notcibly unsightly flattend area as much as a half inch. This makes those new horns...apprear as they have had their horn "slammed down hard on the floor, way too many times???
Dave Monette and Tom feel that a finished full radius bell..aids in overtones and projection.

ANY ONE HAVE IDEAS ABOUT THIS CONCEPT? However in years past, many many old collector instruments have bells that never finish a full radius and still seem to project and sound quite good nallthatjazz???

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2003-10-28 13:24 ]

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 10:43 am Post subject:

what?

drKmod · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:12 am Post subject:

I really wonder what the bore size is...what is the length of the horn, what makes it international and how used are they?

Don
_________________
Don

"Puff and magic happens"
1960 K Modified .458 Selmer Paris Trumpet
1950 Buffet Crampon American Model .470 Cornet

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:35 am Post subject:

Good question?

The bell design looks sooooooooooooooooooooo radically different than any Besson that I have ever seen...but hey, I am certainly no horny expert?
Look at this horn again, carefully. A friend of mine had a horrific ding in bell rim ring area that the metal itself was torn.
He had Oberloh cutt off the ring and cut the rim down. After doing so...the voicing was still quite good...but a little thin or dry in comparison with a very narrow path of good projection. For example..if you stood right in front of his horn, everything seems almost normal..but if you stood next to him, as a playing partner, his sound seem really to fall off or thin out. (I would have to call it a " thindry-sound" not bold or dense....also seemed to loose a bunch of color or overtones???? Humm?

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:28 pm Post subject:

if the bell were cut back in that manner it wouldn't be able to stand on the bell, it would be shorter the the slide.
the bell looks like the other Besson.

http://www.wwbw.com/Item/?itemno=24573

samlg · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:46 pm Post subject:

theres bin no repairs to that. they realy are made that way. the international is a step down from the soverign. the main differences being the bell flare and the lack of first trigger. they sound fine to me, though they do look a little odd.

have fun, sam

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:40 pm Post subject:

Hummm?
You ought to see my "road-rage Besson Sov's Bell. I has a bashed and slightly flattened left side to the bell..if fact the braces have been re-soldered so many times...even the bell has a slightly downward angle. This old horn cost me $50.00 and a story too horrific to talk about. Our model shop electronics lab has a world class expert at bonding and soldering, however one is only as good as their last gig....and in this case my friend messed up this horn who belonged to an engineers son. He was sooooooooooo mad at me and my friend...for attempting to FIX HIS SON'S HORN...(his son had left the old horn on a folding chair...which the T bone player knocked off onto the floor...tear loose one brace...as well as the bell where it hit the floor on first impact.

The lesson we got out of this...is that our "expert" is no horn mechn. and we should have left this job to http://www.oberloh.com to save our !@#$%!!!!
This horn was also HIS FATHERS OLD HORN....so it must have had some sentimental feeling...but being soooooooo mad. I offered to buy the horn. I found a new little Yamaha at Costco...which I paid $50.00 toward the cost of it...and in return, he cooled off a bit...and said "Here, take that old horn Don....I makes me wanna cry when I see the damage you guys did to it when ya tried to fix the brace and failed."

The old horn played soooo sweetly and has this velvety voice...After hearing me play the horn in the acoustal chamber that day at lunch break. I thought he was going to ask for that horn back. You should have heard how the reverb chamber adds to the overtones of any instrument. Totally awesome place to woodshed.
Any way...he didn't change his mind...I still have that ratty beat up old Besson, but back to the subject.
That Bell in the links: attached..is far and away different in taper than this old relich' from the 50's.
GADS! YOU CAN'T TELL CAN YOU THAT I JUST LOOOOOOOVE CORNETS, CAN YOU???? DAAA?

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2003-10-28 18:43 ]

jamesfrmphilly · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 6:54 am Post subject:

samlg
can you tell us some more about the Besson?
how do they play?
and what about the steel valve pistons?
is that better than monel?
is the large bore a problem?

BADBOY-DON · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2003 7:13 am Post subject:

My old road BESSON CORNET horn is no example of a great horn by any means,
however the plated valves are fine...except that I must always keep them well oiled and clean.
The indents on the valve guides have worn so badly..and the slots soooo shallow, I have to be extremly careful in reinserting the valves into the casings...and its a bit frustratingly a task to hit the worn out grooves...
but the sound is beautiful, warm and quite dense with the old deep Besson 5 * V cup mp.

Intonation is very suspect and seems to take a great deal of effort to stay in pitch center..and slide pulls are a way of life.

Another thing that is annoying is...ALL THAT PLUMBING on cold days...makes for lots and lots of excess slide pulls and spit-valve dumpin' routine. (also compared to my trumpets...cold and heat effect the pitch change more drastically and require careful re-tuning as it warms up from playing.
But the small size is soooooo user friendly with mutes (A CORNET AND MUTES GO TOGETHA'-LIKE BEES AND HONEY!!! and the flexibility makes octave breaks and lets you get around the candenza stuff so easily.

Plus it plays with such little effort in the lower and mid range..but plays really kinda tight and goes a little shreeekeee' or shrill if you push it to much in the upper register. Perhaps a mouthpiece change is really needed here????
I tried a little Bach 6 somethin' from a friend a few years ago...I was amazed at how much easier the upper register was...however it lost that Besson Cornet sound and turned into a trumpet sound without the V cup.

BEST ADVANTAGE OF ALL...IT LOOKS LIKE HELL...IS A SLEEPER! YOU ARE NEVER EVER LEAVE HOME WITH OUT AN INSTRUMENT. ONE CAN MISS SOOO MANY OPPORTUNITIES TO JAM...if you leave that purty shiney expensive trumpet at home in its case.

We are hooked on music....right? U know that horrific feeling...not being able to join an improt. jamm and the horn is safely at home.

I hate leaving a quality looking pretty or expensive instrument in the jump seat of my Z as that car has been broken into twice in the past couple of years...but no one seems to want that butt ugly Besson in the jump seat. The last time the thug' took my portable CD player..tapes...pretty new Prism kite...my beloved Oreo cookies...but LEFT THE OLD BESSON..WHICH WAS IN PLAIN SITE..SITTING ON THE FRONT FLOOR PASSENGER SIDE?
GO FIGGER????
Maybe he was a FREEDOM HORN PLAYER..or guitar picker???

[ This Message was edited by: BADBOY-DON on 2003-10-29 10:19 ]