Geneva Cornet

GordonH · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 1:37 am Post subject: Geneva Cornet

Just a short note to say that I had the chance to try a Geneva cornet last night. It was only five minutes but my impressions were:

- Very well made.
- Good intonation and articulation.
- Sound is smaller than what I am used to on my Sovereign.
- Instrument is quite heavy and might become tiring after a while.
- Some concerns about the potential dynamic range.
- Tighter blow than the sovereign.

Geneva are coming to my band next month to let us try out their full range of instruments over two nights. (This is quite common here in the UK as bands tend to replace instruments quite regularly and getting a championship section band on board is good publicity for manufacturers.)

I will let you know how I get on after a full rehearsal on one of their cotnets next month.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

p76 · Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject:

Thanks for that Gordon, will be interested to hear your thoughts of how a whole band sounds.

Our brass band here in OZ is in the process of replacing instruments (no lottery payments here, so it's a long hard slog to get the $$$) - Geneva yet to make it down under, but always interested in new startups.

BTW, not sure if you've caught up with Buffet Group buying B&S etc.

http://www.trumpetherald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=119391

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:44 am Post subject:

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:06 am Post subject:

Interesting to hear that, and it might be something to do with the caps - my Besson 723 is quite open, but I'm pretty sure it's .462

It is a big effort - we've been lucky enough to get some community grants and have bought two new troms (Yamaha), and we're about to get 2-3 cornets and a tenor horn (also Yam). Yamaha is so much cheaper than Besson here in OZ it's not funny - a band can get 3 Xeno cornets and the same money wouldn't get you 2 Sovereigns.

We were lucky to pick up 2 nice Besson Eb Tubas from a Salvation Army band down in Melbourne - they seem to get new instruments more regularly than other Brass Bands.

I assume that if the Genevas are OK you'd get a good deal if they want to sign up a good band. Always nice to play new horns!

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:11 am Post subject:

I just did an online search for prices here for the main professional cornets.

If I was buying any of these instruments here today these are the best prices I could order one for for immediate delivery (UK pounds):

Geneva £1850
Schilke XA1 £1863
Sovereign £2035
Yamaha Xeno £2040
Bach 184G £2160
Prestige £2600

So you can see why Geneva is being considered by many bands as a cheaper but high quality alternative.

Prices are going up all the time.
The Prestige was £2400 a few months ago.
Two years ago a Sovereign cornet was £1600.

Note how Schilke is now cheaper than Bach.
Its the same price difference between their trumpets too.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:41 am Post subject:

That is interesting - I can get a Xeno here for about $2.4K, but the Besson is a touch over $3, with the Prestige somewhere north of that.

Bachs and Schilkes not available, or at least not through normal channels, nor Genevas. If Geneva did come with that sort of price difference here they'd do some business, I'm sure.

Some things don't seem to cross the equator......

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:44 am Post subject:

That means you are paying about £500 less for a Xeno than we are.
No doubt due to different trade tariffs with Japan.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:27 am Post subject:

Yamaha are also aggressive in the market at the moment, that is a "Band price" for a multiple purchase, about $2800 if I went in as a civilian. Besson prices haven't really shifted in the last few years, even though the $A has moved up about 30% against both the £ and the €.

We've actually stayed about the same vs. the ¥ durng that time as well, which makes it even more interesting.

Personally I prefer the Sov. to the Xeno, but when you're looking at $600 difference in priceper unit, as a band decision it's a no-brainer. I own my Besson, so not so much of an issue personally, and at the level of our band (Creswick Brass Band, current D Grade Victorian Champs!

which I think equates to 4th section over in the homeland), mixing cornets is not really an issue..... our neighbouring band, Ballarat has a new bandmaster who wants the cornets all on the same mpcs....I think he's got other issues to address before he worries about that (same level as us, mortal enemies on the contest stage!)

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

GordonH · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:52 am Post subject:

We have three bands:

Our "A" band is in championship section
Our "B" band are fourth section champions and moving up to third (we have won every contest we have competed in this year in Scotland)
Our Youth band are in the youth section.

I play in the "B" band as bumper up.
Its an odd mix of professionals who are too busy to commit to the "A" band rehearsal schedule (some of them quite noteable players!) and youngsters coming through who would not be good enough for championship section. Both bands are constituted seperately and have seperate registrations so we can't swap players around although the finances are common and we share everything else.

I don't agree with everyone playing the same mouthpiece. My principal cornet is a lead trumpet player (for his living) and has a very bright sound. He uses a Wick 2 to compensate. if I play on that I sound like a flugel. By playing on a shallower mouthpiece I have arrived at a sound which is very similar to his.

I quite like the relaxed atmosphere of our band. We rehearse only once a week and prior tot he last contest I think we only had two rehearsals where all the solo cornets were there at the same time. We still managed to win though.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

p76 · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:07 am Post subject:

Gordon,

Your B band sounds very much like ours in spirit. Very much a community band (Creswick is a small town of about 3000, 10miles from Ballarat 100,000 people), and it's very relaxed, which is one of our keys to success I think - we do all the village band things - Australia Day, ANZAC Day, Fete, Xmas etc., but also compete - we have a mix of teachers, ex military bandsmen, and kids and amateurs of varying levels. I moved back to the bush from Melbourne where I played 2nd in an A grade band (Preston), and am enjoying the once a week rehearsals, playing Rep, Solo, or 2nd as the occasion, the bandmaster or the playout/comp. requires.

We're not as successful as you, although we've at least placed in every comp. we've entered since I've been there (4 years)-winning the state title this year was a coup.

I also think the mpc. thing is ridiculous - it's usually not the problem with section playing - in fact I've never played in any situation where everyone is on the same mpc.

Can't wait to hear your impressions of the Geneva - it's just ticked over to 8 December here, so I might go and have a kip.

Cheers,
Roger
_________________
Bb - Selmer Radial, Yamaha YTR634, Kanstul 1001, Kanstul 700.
C - Yamaha 641.
Cornet - Olds Ambassador A6T, Besson 723, Olds Ambassador Long.
Flugel - Kanstul 1525
Mpc. - ACB 3CS, ACB 3ES, Curry 3BBC, Kanstul FB Flugel

Louise Finch · Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:17 am Post subject:

Hi Gordon

I noticed that you left the Smith Watkins K-2 off your cornet list.

Nice brass band cornet, at least in my opinion.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

trumpetmike · Posted: Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:25 pm Post subject:

No mention of the Eclipse either (the only cornet I would consider if I was in the market for a new one).

Have played a few Geneva instruments and have yet to find a single one I would wish to pay any money for. Have also seen a number of them that have had to be rebuilt within a couple of months of purchase - quality definitely not what I would be looking for.

GordonH · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 4:48 am Post subject:

I was listing the readily available mass produced ones that the Geneva, Eclipse and Smith Watkins would have to compete against.
_________________
Bb - Scherzer 8218W, Schilke S22, Bach 43, Selmer 19A Balanced
Pic - Weril
Flugel - Courtois 154
Cornet - Geneva Heritage, Conn 28A
Mouthpieces - Monette 1-5 rims and similar.

Licensed Radio Amateur - GM4SVM

Louise Finch · Posted: Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:26 am Post subject:

Hi GordonH

I fully understand. I however have the Smith Watkins K-2. I'm not sure quite how many are made, but unlike the Soloist model, which has custom options, I just bought my K-2 from inventory held by Phil Parkers in London.

All the best

Lou
_________________
Trumpets:
Yamaha 8335 Xeno II
Bach Strad 180ML/37
B&H Oxford
Kanstul F Besson C
Yamaha D and D/Eb
- James R New Custom 3Cs
Flugel:
Bach Strad 183 - Bach 3CFL
Cornets:
Yamaha Neo + Xeno
Bach Strad 184ML
B&H Imperial
- Kanstul Custom 3Cs

nickwalkley · New Member Joined: 25 Jan 2013 Posts: 7 Location: London

As it happens...

I have a Geneva Verbier cornet up for sale in the marketplace section.

It has served me well in the time I've owned it. I bought it new 2 years ago or so, and have done various auditions and recitals on it.

This model was sold to me before they brought out the Symphony model, which I think is their attempt at a more standardised cornet. I had quite a lot of trouble getting the instrument off them once I'd ordered it, possibly victims of their own success there and having outgrown the small customised market they'd started off with, but seems like they've adapted to a more streamlined production system now, which is a shame in a way because I went to them for something different! Which is what I got, I can't buy anything like this from anyone else.

I heard a few people had problems with the build quality. Personally I've had no issues, despite a few attempts to break it! Seems to be well built and nicely crafted horn... as they say around here.

I can't remember the exact options of the spec, but I remember trying out a combination of leadpipes and bells in the workshop. Whatever I ended up with has a massive dark sound which was great for the principal cornet/solo stuff I was doing at the time.

Nowadays it sits under my bed most of the time, waiting for a new home and to line my pocket so I can invest in a Picc or a C trumpet, which would be much more use to me now!