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zaferis
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Joined: 03 Nov 2011
Posts: 172
Location: Beavercreek, OH
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 Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'm in the same boat.. like the Bach 3C for size and tone but not the "bite"...
The low cost route is Yamaha 14B4 (to include the "custom" heavy design). I found this mouthpiece to be one of the most versatile out there... big enough and deep enough for concert band, quintet work, and shallow enough for section work in the jazz band.. (I actually use one for the better part of a 2 years playing lead in a USAF Big Band)
Bonus here for me is that I like the 14B4 on my Selmer Pic.. for wedding work - nice tone, and comfort.
Then, I would suggest Curry ... 3C to start or maybe a little deeper if you want the cup depth.. but I have come to like these mouthpieces quite a lot. A little more pricey than the Yamaha.
I liked the feel of Reeves 43.. but after a while felt that it was restricting (air flow) and there is something in the sound that wasn't as versatile.
Someone wrote that the Shew Jazz mouthpiece is the same size.... I disagree - I find them to be noticeably smaller in diameter.. a decent mouthpiece but not 3C in size.
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 5644
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| jadickson wrote: | | Curry 3C. |
Would be a great choice regarding a comfortable rim. But would not be a great choice if the OP wants easier high notes as I think he stated. The Reeves mouthpiece designs are the only ones I've ever encountered that make high notes easier for me than on other similar sized mouthpieces.
Edited once to add previous sentence and then again to correct a typo.
Last edited by John Mohan on Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:44 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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John Mohan
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Nov 2001
Posts: 5644
Location: Chicago, Illinois
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| cheiden wrote: |
My opinion of the Reeves options is that the 43-size feels like a larger vintage Bach 3C vintage (too large for me) and the 42 feels much smaller (too small for me). I also find his rim wider which my chops don't like. |
I guess things feel different to different people. The 43 rim feels smaller than a 3C rim to me (which it is, though not by much). And you're right in that the 42 is very small in terms of inner diameter (its inner diameter is that of a Bach 10-1/2C). And while the 43 rim is perhaps a tad wider than a 3C rim, the 42 rim is really wide. In fact, the 42 rim is so wide that while its inner diameter is smaller than a 43's inner diameter, its outer diameter is actually bigger than a 43C's or a 3C's outer diameter.
How that 43C's rim size feels to you could have something to do with where the high point is on its rim. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3571
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| John Mohan wrote: | | cheiden wrote: |
My opinion of the Reeves options is that the 43-size feels like a larger vintage Bach 3C vintage (too large for me) and the 42 feels much smaller (too small for me). I also find his rim wider which my chops don't like. |
I guess things feel different to different people. The 43 rim feels smaller than a 3C rim to me (which it is, though not by much). And you're right in that the 42 is very small in terms of inner diameter (its inner diameter is that of a Bach 10-1/2C). And while the 43 rim is perhaps a tad wider than a 3C rim, the 42 rim is really wide. In fact, the 42 rim is so wide that while its inner diameter is smaller than a 43's inner diameter, its outer diameter is actually bigger than a 43C's or a 3C's outer diameter.
How that 43C's rim size feels to you could have something to do with where the high point is on its rim. |
As I've said the particular vintage Bach 3C I prefer is about the smallest I've found and many other vintages (newer and older) feel an awful bigger, a lot like many Bach 1.5Cs, to my lips.
Regarding Reeves offerings I've have moderate success with the 43N which I feel is more similar in shape and width to the 3C vintage I prefer though, as I've said the ID still feels bigger to me.
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richardwy
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Posts: 3874
Location: Casper, WY - The Gotham of the Prarie
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| zaferis wrote: | | I'm in the same boat.. like the Bach 3C for size and tone but not the "bite"... |
Mouthpieces are a trade-off. Our abilities enter in also.
For what's put in front of me, it's sound, tone, timbre. Not saying that one measure will fit all.
That just how this hack tackles the evils of trumpet playing.
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cjl
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 1975
Location: TN
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| b4il3ytrpt wrote: | | Thanks Dale! I just wish we had a shop down here in the hills of SW Virginia where I could sit and try a few things. Nearest place I could go where someone would actually have a "kit" would be Knoxville TN or Roanoke VA. I'll definitely give the Curry and the Schilke 14B both a shot if I can get a hold of either one. Thanks again! |
Hey -
Where are you exactly? I live in TN but work in Abingdon, VA (waaay SW VA). I have lots of 3C-like pieces including the aforementioned Schilke and Curry.
Send me a PM or email if we're near each other.
-- Joe |
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b4il3ytrpt
New Member
Joined: 11 Feb 2011
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for all the responses everyone! Looks like I have some mouthpieces to test out and see what works with my ability (or lack thereof), lips, and just the way I play in general. I'm sure one of them will work. cjl - I live in Norton, VA. Not too far away from where you work. I might know you for all I know! I'll send you a PM. |
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ewetho
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Joined: 20 Jun 2007
Posts: 1061
Location: Kankakee, IL
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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Used to have a 43.5B Reeves that was very 3C'ish in size just more comfortable. Could look there too. What I remember the big difference in 43.5 and 43 is the rim high point (which also if I recall is where the size is determined from what I measured.) The old Comparator had a few of those in it and they were CLOSE.
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Dan in Sydney
Veteran Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2007
Posts: 146
Location: Sydney, Australia/ Sarasota, Florida
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| Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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Just try and find another Bach 3C-- perhaps an older one-- the rim contour is very different on the early Elkhart ones.
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fuzzyjon79
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 Apr 2003
Posts: 3008
Location: Nashville, TN
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:43 am Post subject: |
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If you can find one to try out, give the Denis Wick 3C a try. Its inner rim diameter is a little larger than the Bach 3C (16.75mm vs. 16.30mm), but the rim is more comfortable. Great piece.
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Last edited by fuzzyjon79 on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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trumpaholic
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 1249
Location: Lindsay Ontario Canada
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:52 am Post subject: |
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I have a gold plated VINCENT BACH CORP 3C from 65 - 69 which has a much softer byte than the new ones.
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Louise Finch
Veteran Member
Joined: 10 Aug 2012
Posts: 328
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Hi
Jim New at Kanstul has a scan of my 2005 Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece on file. I'm not sure exactly how this compares to the average Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece, only to say that I bought this one with another and it had the softer bite of the two. Additionally, since I found the bite of the Bach 3C cornet mouthpieces of the same time period to be slightly sharper, my cornet mouthpiece of choice is a Kanstul copy of the cup end of my Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece combined with the Kanstul B10 (copy of a Bach 10) cornet backbore in a copy of a Bach cornet mouthpiece blank.
On the other hand, I bought another used Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece off Ebay a few years ago, and the bite seems as soft as my 2005 one.
Anyhow, if at any time you are happy to send Jim New at Kanstul your Bach 3C to scan, I am very happy for you to ask him how it compares to mine, and for him to make you a copy of mine if it is softer.
All the best
Lou
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brassjunky
Regular Member
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 56
Location: Down Under
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:16 am Post subject: |
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I second those who recommended trying another Bach 3C. You might be very surprised at the variation in bite that you find, particularly if you get some second hand ones from across the years.
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Zman
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Joined: 11 Dec 2007
Posts: 381
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:24 am Post subject: |
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Wedge Mouthpieces line.
It sounds like what you are looking for.
Cup size can be made to order - but a Bach 3C is a standard size.
The rims are completely different and much more comfortable than a standard piece.
If cost is an issue check out the plastics range.
Rgds, Zman
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tonytromba
New Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:44 am Post subject: bach 3c |
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| The best solution! Get a larget letter 3C. The large letter ones had a softer rim. Trust me! Guaranteed! |
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tonytromba
New Member
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Posts: 9
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:49 am Post subject: bach 3c |
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Also people are proving wrong information here... as usual. The GR size is 66 to try comparable to a bach 3C rim, not 64.
Also the Shew Jazz is not a bach 3C size.
OMG! Why do people insist on putting wrong infirmation here??
I think they do it on purpose... |
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hackney_wick
Regular Member
Joined: 08 Jun 2012
Posts: 14
Location: Suffolk, England
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 10:58 am Post subject: 3c |
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Apart from the Wedge I don't think the Bach Artisan 3c has been mentioned? That has a really comfortable rim and being a 'new' design they will all be the same, unlike old Bachs.
Older Bach 3cs won't necessarily help you play higher (unless your current rim is so sharp it hurts). I don't think the Artisan will help you go higher either, nor will the Curry 3c as mentioned above, although both sound great in different ways.
If you want to try a 3c that has a comfortable rim and really is easier to play higher take the other suggestion above of the Reeves 3c. In my case (which may differ from yours) it extends the easily achievable range by a couple of tones, which means the entire high register is easier to negotiate. It's different from a Bach in several respects but still has several core 3c qualities.
The Artisan costs more than the Curry or standard Bach and the Reeves costs more still (but is still only half the price of a GR). Since the Artisan and Reeves are new it will be difficult to pick one up second hand. |
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cheiden
Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004
Posts: 3571
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 11:09 am Post subject: Re: bach 3c |
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| tonytromba wrote: | Also people are proving wrong information here... as usual. The GR size is 66 to try comparable to a bach 3C rim, not 64.
Also the Shew Jazz is not a bach 3C size.
OMG! Why do people insist on putting wrong infirmation here??
I think they do it on purpose... |
Mouthpiece rims are very hard to quantify, at least in terms of how they feel and play. For each manufacturer the published dimensions are derived by measuring the inner diameter at different depths. And depending on your lips and embochure sometimes the high point on the rim is the defining diameter, while for others the diameter well below the rim is most important.
So you see there are lots of reasons for folk to claim similarities in size that are at odds with each other. The Reeves website even goes so far as to indicate how their piece compare by measurement versus how they compare by how they feel which can be several sizes different.
So disagreements in perception aren't always "on purpose" or the result of some other evil intention.
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"I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb
Yamaha 731 Flugel
Kanstul 920 Picc
Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim/Bach 1-1/2C underpart |
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jengstrom
Veteran Member
Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dustin wrote: | | jimpops wrote: | | You could check out the GR mouthpieces. I use a 3MX. The 64's I believe are also comprable to a 3C. |
Actually it's the 66 rim. The 66M or 66MX will be good for 3C players. I just got a 66M and LOVE it. |
There are quite a few threads on TH about 3C-ish mouthpieces, and when it comes to GR, people seem to have a strong preference for either the 66 series or the 3 series. My preference is the 3 series. It has slightly more cushion than a Bach 3C or GR 66 rim, and slightly less bite than either of those two as well. It just fits me.
One nice thing about GR (as well as several other non Bach makers) is that all rims of a given series are the same, so you can order other models with various cups and backbores and the feel will be the same on your chops. In my experience, that's real hard to do with Bach.
-John |
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musicman0097
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Joined: 10 Jul 2012
Posts: 122
Location: Hayward, California
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| Posted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Try something with a different alpha angle. I find I bottom out on a newer Bach 3C. It used to work fine for me so I bought a 3E for piccolo and high register work. Waste of my money now. Now I use old New York Giardinelli's for upper register. But that's besides the point. For all around playing and for classical, I found using a piece with a lower alpha angle works much better for me. I started using a 2 1/2C, 2C rim with B cup underpart and now a use a Monette B3. Wide rim, deeper cup, lower alpha angle. Works way better. Look into that as well.
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