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lipshurt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 24 Feb 2008 Posts: 2642 Location: vista ca
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Oops should have been "deserves" some credit.
Jeff are you making negative comments about jean luc? That was a good band _________________ Mouthpiece Maker
vintage Trumpet design enthusiast
www.meeuwsenmouthpieces.com
www.youtube.com/lipshurt |
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jazz_trpt Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Nov 2001 Posts: 5734 Location: Savoy, Illinois, USA
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: | Jeff are you making negative comments about jean luc? |
No, just a joke. _________________ Jeff Helgesen
Free jazz solo transcriptions! |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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lipshurt wrote: | If my memory is right, I'm pretty sure i saw randy jackson playing with jean luc ponty, a long time ago,and he was very good. Not what i would call a "suit". He's a musician first. He deceives some amount of credit, i would think |
Well, if that's true, then he's got some cred and musical ability. Guess you gotta pay the bills...
The few times I've been subjected to American Idol, I guess I just haven't seen any evidence of it. Then again, the format is one that pretty promotes unrelated drama (Paula Abdul, whoever the catty chicks are on "The Voice") and milquetoast commentary. Unless you're Simon, in which case, you're acerbic or scathing but really adding nothing of value.
So, maybe it's just the show. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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Shipham_Player Veteran Member
Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Posts: 392 Location: Somerset, UK
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 3:22 am Post subject: |
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Fantastic article.
Although I don't watch the US version we have the original show in the UK with Simon Cowell and it's exactly the same format/principles.
I can't watch it as a musician as anyone who has any subtlety/their own voice doesn't have a chance - it's all about who can sell records and make money for Simon Cowell.
You have to educate the youngsters - my 4 year old boy asks 'why is that lady feeling so sad?' when I play some Billie Holiday - great chance for you to explain in simple terms what a song means.
I know he can't really understand at his age but helping him recognise how music expresses emotions will pay off in the long term and hopefully he won't be an air-head about music when he's older.
Just my 2 cents worth. _________________ Eclipse Enigma
Benson Brevette 1950 Flugel
Curry 3C Custom, Bach 3C, HT Jazz |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Crazy Finn wrote: | People ask me, since I "do music" if I watch American Idol. I don't. Never have, never will.
Add to the fact that it's a 30 minute show that runs for 120 with all the fluff - I just can't stand anything about it.
Just because someone has pipes doesn't mean they can sing or is musician. There's a lot of that on the show and I've got better things to do with my time than have it be wasted by vocal histrionics and empty-headed judges spouting off or attempting to wax eloquence. Attempting.
Thanks to Harry for articulating one reason I can't stand that type of show - and I do listen to some pop music.
AverageJoe wrote: | Randy Jackson is proof that some seeds die of starvation...he ought to know the difference, but clearly he doesn't. |
Why? He's a record producer. That's got NOTHING to do with music or being a musician. It has NOTHING to do with quality.
He's basically a marketing suit without the starched collar. He knows what he can shill to crappy pop radio. |
You should really get more educated about the music business before you choose to publicly confirm your stupidity.
Being a record producer ( a good one ), requires a very high level of musicianship, listening skills, diplomacy, organizational skills, and a myriad of other talents and skills. Randy has been a studio musician and performing musician with many top artists.
Here are some of his credits and achievements:
" Jackson played in bands with Carlos Santana and Jerry Garcia. In the early 1980s he played on three albums for Jean-Luc Ponty. From 1986 to 1987 he was a session musician for the rock group Journey. He also played with Billy Cobham and Whitney Houston. "
" Jackson played numerous times in Jean-Luc Ponty's backing band. His credits as a session musician range from playing with Aldo Nova, Blue Öyster Cult, Jon Bon Jovi, Michael Bolton, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Billy Cobham, Bob Dylan, Aretha Franklin, Herbie Hancock, Ernie Isley, Billy Joel, Brent Bourgeois, Journey, Richard Marx, George Michael, Stevie Nicks, Imogen Heap, Bruce Springsteen and Roger Waters to playing at the Grand Ole Opry with The Charlie Daniels Band. His production/songwriting work in the San Francisco Bay Area with Narada Michael Walden and Walter Afanasieff led Jackson to be in demand as a producer as well."
" Jackson has recorded, produced, or toured with many well-known artists and bands, ranging from Mariah Carey (he has worked with her throughout her career, been her musical director for a number of her tours; he has formed part of her band during numerous performances including Live 8 in London in 2005) to 'N Sync, Whitney Houston, (produced) Dionne Farris' (critically acclaimed debut CD, Wild-Seed Wild-Flower), Céline Dion, Fergie (dating back to her days in Wild Orchid), Stryper,[5] and Madonna. "
Granted, some of the artists aren't my cup of tea, but it still takes an enormous amount of talent and social skills to be able to negotiate the pitfalls and traps of the music business to rise to the level of wealth and notoriety he has. He started all this as a bass player. Not many musicians, bass players, trumpet players, or anything else, can achieve this.
Also, his net worth is estimated at $40,000,000. Yes, that's $40 million. |
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Fuzzy Dunlop Heavyweight Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2011 Posts: 630
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:34 am Post subject: |
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mellowjazz is in the dog pound for real. |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Fuzzy Dunlop wrote: | mellowjazz is in the dog pound for real. |
Woof ! |
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lh Claude Gordon Forum Moderator
Joined: 31 Mar 2005 Posts: 3137 Location: London UK
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | You should really get more educated about the music business before you choose to publicly confirm your stupidity. |
Wow... you aren't related to Dale Carnegie, are you?
I didn't know that notoriety and buckets of cash were indicators of musical taste and aesthetic awareness. But then again, I didn't know the pants video you posted about 7 times was the most hilarious thing ever. _________________ Eclipse Enigma Bb trumpet 2011
Olds Super Bb trumpet 1958
Eclipse Red Flugelhorn 2011
Selmer Paris model 59 Piccolo 1977
Conn New Invention Cornet 1913 |
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cheiden Heavyweight Member
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Regardless of the judges credentials, American Idol by design focuses on finding short attention-span spectacle. Sometimes they elevate singers that are more than a flash in the pan but not often. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:46 am Post subject: |
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lh wrote: | Quote: | You should really get more educated about the music business before you choose to publicly confirm your stupidity. |
Wow... you aren't related to Dale Carnegie, are you?
I didn't know that notoriety and buckets of cash were indicators of musical taste and aesthetic awareness. But then again, I didn't know the pants video you posted about 7 times was the most hilarious thing ever. |
Easy, gentlemen... _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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EdMann Heavyweight Member
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 2481 Location: The Big Valley
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:56 am Post subject: |
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There's a good reason so many musicians can't stand watching Idol, or The Voice. The song choices so often don't match the experience of the contestant. If Harry wanted to have a contestant understand the notion of loss in a relationship, perhaps she'd never had one that ended that way. She couldn't fake it so she did the little girl thing on Someone To Watch. That may very well have been the more honest approach for her. Some singers have great chops but little experience, often the case in the youngish Idol. I work with singers either as a producer or in bands, and it's universally the younger ones who don't understand what they're singing... yet.
ed |
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Crazy Finn Heavyweight Member
Joined: 27 Dec 2001 Posts: 8333 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:58 am Post subject: |
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mellowjazz wrote: | You should really get more educated about the music business before you choose to publicly confirm your stupidity. |
And I think your view of the music business is wildly idealistic.
I also noted in a post above that if indeed Mr. Jackson has played with some good players, obviously he's got some real skill. I fully acknowledge I was wrong about that.
He's obviously a good musician.
However, that really puts a point on this previous poster's comment.
AverageJoe wrote: | Randy Jackson is proof that some seeds die of starvation...he ought to know the difference, but clearly he doesn't. |
It seems to me, if he's got that resume, he should be on the same wavelength as Mr. Connick Jr. He wasn't - which makes me think either he totally selling out for the show - not rocking the boat and giving TV it's typical empty superficiality. Or maybe he doesn't care - which is sad.
Also, the litany of famous artists he's worked with does nothing to detract from the point that he knows what type of music to shill to crappy pop radio. Some of them mentioned rise above that. Many don't.
mellowjazz wrote: | Granted, some of the artists aren't my cup of tea, but it still takes an enormous amount of talent and social skills to be able to negotiate the pitfalls and traps of the music business to rise to the level of wealth and notoriety he has. He started all this as a bass player. Not many musicians, bass players, trumpet players, or anything else, can achieve this.
Also, his net worth is estimated at $40,000,000. Yes, that's $40 million. |
Can't argue with any of that. _________________ LA Benge 3X Bb Trumpet
Selmer Radial Bb Trumpet
Yamaha 6335S Bb Trumpet
Besson 709 Bb Trumpet
Bach 184L Bb Cornet
Yamaha 731 Bb Flugelhorn |
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BGinNJ Veteran Member
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 380
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:09 am Post subject: |
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Shows like Idol sell style over substance, celebrity over integrity. If you ever have the time and stomach to watch a season, you'll see how they cultivate the images of the "chosen ones". They get coaching, wardrobe, haircuts, etc. to fit the mold. The celebrity portion is a sideshow, too, with the banter and manufactured infighting. A while back, Rod Stewart was a mentor for GAS material- and he's simply awful at it, himself!
Take a singer who really knows the songbook and has coaching, like Jane Monheit- as talented as she is, I don't think she'd make the cut on AI. Sadly, that's why most of America knows who Carrie Underwood is, but not her- or Harry Connick Jr., for that matter. |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:21 am Post subject: |
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I am not sure exactly what Harry said, but it's always better to have experienced what you are singing about, but not necessary.
You could research and study many things, and be very knowledgeable about them without having to have direct, real-world experience with them. Also, with many of these things, it's a blessing to have to never deal with them. Case in point. You can study and work in the criminal justice system and be very effective and useful, without experiencing being a criminal or living around criminals, right ?
A singer can channel emotions into a song without having direct experience with anything in the song. An actor can do the same with a part or performance. You don't have to do heroine to feel and sing the way Billie Holiday felt and sang, right ?
My point about Randy, is that he obviously had the skills, talent, practical intelligence and emotional intelligence, along with allot of street smarts and charm, to rise to the top of the stratosphere in a very difficult " business" . All the while, circumventing and hurdling racism and other factors prevalent in this business and every other business. Most of the "people" in the music and entertainment "business" are greedy, money-based, shrewd, aggressive people. You can research who these people are , and were, from the inception of the first record companies and film studios. Many of these companies were formed and run by organized crime and/or affiliations with organized crime. It's a big money, high stakes business, and Harry is aware of all this, since he's managed to rise to the stratosphere in it also. If you can do that, it's a small miracle (for anyone). |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:27 am Post subject: |
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lh wrote: | Quote: | You should really get more educated about the music business before you choose to publicly confirm your stupidity. |
Wow... you aren't related to Dale Carnegie, are you?
I didn't know that notoriety and buckets of cash were indicators of musical taste and aesthetic awareness. But then again, I didn't know the pants video you posted about 7 times was the most hilarious thing ever. |
Thanks for the compliment. It is hilarious. I agree. I only posted it once, though. |
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conn53victor Heavyweight Member
Joined: 18 Apr 2004 Posts: 1047 Location: Iowa City, IA
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:25 am Post subject: |
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I heard Chris Botti playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" this morning on KCCK (Iowa's only fulltime jazz station). Thinking about this thread, I realized that Botti plays the words. He meets Connick's standard of understanding and honoring the song. That's why most TH members seem to accept him even if they don't particularly like his music. _________________ Jim Calkins
IA City
‎"Rooty toot bop pattern. Rooty toot blues lick. Rooty toot Miles quote. Rooty toot mistake- all my solos." -Dmitri Matheny
1963 Connstellation |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:00 am Post subject: |
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conn53victor wrote: | I heard Chris Botti playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" this morning on KCCK (Iowa's only fulltime jazz station). Thinking about this thread, I realized that Botti plays the words. He meets Connick's standard of understanding and honoring the song. That's why most TH members seem to accept him even if they don't particularly like his music. |
Spot on. Chris Botti is probably one of the most tasteful, reserved, musically-sensitive, and technically proficient trumpet players around. He knows he can play high and loud, but also knows he doesn't have to do that to try and impress other trumpet players. He plays very sensually and romantically. He tunes into the beautiful side of the trumpet. He has become the top selling instrumental recording artist of all time by playing beautiful melodies in a beautiful way. |
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zackh411 Heavyweight Member
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 1886 Location: Saint Louis MO
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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mellowjazz wrote: | conn53victor wrote: | I heard Chris Botti playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" this morning on KCCK (Iowa's only fulltime jazz station). Thinking about this thread, I realized that Botti plays the words. He meets Connick's standard of understanding and honoring the song. That's why most TH members seem to accept him even if they don't particularly like his music. |
Spot on. Chris Botti is probably one of the most tasteful, reserved, musically-sensitive, and technically proficient trumpet players around. He knows he can play high and loud, but also knows he doesn't have to do that to try and impress other trumpet players. He plays very sensually and romantically. He tunes into the beautiful side of the trumpet. He has become the top selling instrumental recording artist of all time by playing beautiful melodies in a beautiful way. |
I love Chris. I'd give an octave off the top to be able to do what he does. _________________ ~Zack
Lead Piece: Custom PickettBrass
Jazz Piece: Custom Curry TC
Legit Piece: Yamaha Shew Jazz (18 Drill) |
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mellowjazz Regular Member
Joined: 03 Apr 2013 Posts: 50
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 9:32 am Post subject: |
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zackh411 wrote: | mellowjazz wrote: | conn53victor wrote: | I heard Chris Botti playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" this morning on KCCK (Iowa's only fulltime jazz station). Thinking about this thread, I realized that Botti plays the words. He meets Connick's standard of understanding and honoring the song. That's why most TH members seem to accept him even if they don't particularly like his music. |
Spot on. Chris Botti is probably one of the most tasteful, reserved, musically-sensitive, and technically proficient trumpet players around. He knows he can play high and loud, but also knows he doesn't have to do that to try and impress other trumpet players. He plays very sensually and romantically. He tunes into the beautiful side of the trumpet. He has become the top selling instrumental recording artist of all time by playing beautiful melodies in a beautiful way. |
I love Chris. I'd give an octave off the top to be able to do what he does. |
That's the thing. He has range. He probably can play as high as you can, but he knows that this only impresses other trumpet players, who, for the most part, don't constitute his main demographic. If he did the high note thing exclusively, he'd be relegated to selling CDs out of his trunk at high school gigs. |
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fraserhutch Heavyweight Member
Joined: 09 Oct 2006 Posts: 2548 Location: Oakville, ON Canada
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 10:26 am Post subject: |
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mellowjazz wrote: | zackh411 wrote: | mellowjazz wrote: | conn53victor wrote: | I heard Chris Botti playing "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" this morning on KCCK (Iowa's only fulltime jazz station). Thinking about this thread, I realized that Botti plays the words. He meets Connick's standard of understanding and honoring the song. That's why most TH members seem to accept him even if they don't particularly like his music. |
Spot on. Chris Botti is probably one of the most tasteful, reserved, musically-sensitive, and technically proficient trumpet players around. He knows he can play high and loud, but also knows he doesn't have to do that to try and impress other trumpet players. He plays very sensually and romantically. He tunes into the beautiful side of the trumpet. He has become the top selling instrumental recording artist of all time by playing beautiful melodies in a beautiful way. |
I love Chris. I'd give an octave off the top to be able to do what he does. |
That's the thing. He has range. He probably can play as high as you can, but he knows that this only impresses other trumpet players, who, for the most part, don't constitute his main demographic. If he did the high note thing exclusively, he'd be relegated to selling CDs out of his trunk at high school gigs. |
^^^^ this ^^^^^ _________________ Schilke B1
Callet Jazz
Scodwell Standard Bb
Roger Ingram 1600is
Wild Thing Flugel
Dillon Rotary Picc.
GR and Curry Mouthpieces |
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