Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Posts: 11242 Location: Ash (an even smaller place ), UK
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:04 pm Post subject: Russian Style?
I have been asked, by an ex-student, about the Russian style of trumpet playing and I am asking for help as to where to look for more information.
I have got the Timofei Dokshizer memoirs and am reading through that looking for good examples, but any other sources would be gratefully received.
They already have some notes and have asked for my help in finding more. I have more sources to look into at this end, but if anyone has any stonkingly good websites that they feel they can share I would be most grateful (as would she!).
Get some recordings of the USSR Symphony. There are some great albums out there. The style that the trumpeters play is completely different from European or American. And the tonguing is impeccable.
Joined: 22 Jun 2004 Posts: 580 Location: New Brunswick, Canada
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:35 pm Post subject:
Two Songs that come to mind to help you with the Russian Style are the Russian Sailors Dance, and the Hymn to the Soviet Union. Those help you understand the style, and anything written by Stravinsky, the guy who wrote the Hymn to the Soviet Union, would definatley be something worth listening to. _________________ Keep Playin'
Mike
Conn Vintage 1 1BR-SP
Holton ST 308 "Maynard Ferguson"
Joined: 26 Dec 2002 Posts: 66 Location: Baltimore MD
Posted: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:30 am Post subject:
There is a recording of the Shostakovich Piano Concerto on the
Melodiya label, catalog MCD179.
The piano concerto is played by Yevgeny Kisin with
Vladimir Kafelnikov on trumpet.
Vladimir Spivakov conducts the Moscow Virtuosi.
The disc also has the Shostakovich Symphony no. 15 (fun!)
The style, sound, articulation is Russian through and through.
LaserBoy _________________ Do not look into laser with remaining eye!
Basically they play with Bb ( No C trumpet ). They also play with smaller mpc. ( a la 7 C ).
In spite of musical things, and can say, They play loud¡¡¡¡.
I have heard tho old Soviet Orchestras playing the Prokofief and the Shostakovich and it is really fun and different.
There were the old records of Melodya ( The soviet record company ). I can say that these records do not honour the Orchestras.
the older russian recordings i have sounds like LOUD with lots of vibrato is or was common...absolutely no prisoners taken! i have a recording of tchaikovsky 6 with leningrad with one the loudest, most spirited mistakes recorded (trumpet)...i love it, though.
french horns used some vibrato, too.
the newer recordings of russian groups that i have seem a bit more refined, though.
Not necessary.
In Russia we have two major trumpet schools Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow. All Russian conservatories tide and follow these schools. Good examples of Leningrad school are recording on Leningrad Philharmonic Shostakovich symphony (music director Mravinsky) or Marinsky (Kirov) Opera & Ballet Theater. They using Bb trumpet and bigger mouthpieces (Bach 3C <). This schools get start from German trumpeter who lived and work in Russia (such as William Worm).
The Moscow school is more complicated. In Moscow have two major schools the Moscow conservatory and Gnesin Music Academy.
The Moscow conservatory is old school. The USSR orchestra is a good example.
The Gnesin Music Academy is new (open I think but not sure 1933 +10). The good example Bolshoy Theater recording. For long time Timofey Dokshitcer was professor in this academy and solo trumpet in Bolshoy Thiater (by the way I herd he never play ballet “Spartacus” and sum people think he “kill” Russian trumpet school , don’t get me wrong he one of the kinds ). This school was influence by French-German. They are using Bb trumpet and any mouthpieces.
I would still say that 3C is a small mouthpiece but I know that that is not necessarily majority. If you want to hear the USSR Symphony check on eBay. There are CDs and records for sale all the time on there. I know I grabbed Shostakovich's movie score to "The Gadfly."
Not necessary.
In Russia we have two major trumpet schools Leningrad (St. Petersburg) and Moscow. All Russian conservatories tide and follow these schools. Good examples of Leningrad school are recording on Leningrad Philharmonic Shostakovich symphony (music director Mravinsky) or Marinsky (Kirov) Opera & Ballet Theater. They using Bb trumpet and bigger mouthpieces (Bach 3C <). This schools get start from German trumpeter who lived and work in Russia (such as William Worm).
The Moscow school is more complicated. In Moscow have two major schools the Moscow conservatory and Gnesin Music Academy.
The Moscow conservatory is old school. The USSR orchestra is a good example.
The Gnesin Music Academy is new (open I think but not sure 1933 +10). The good example Bolshoy Theater recording. For long time Timofey Dokshitcer was professor in this academy and solo trumpet in Bolshoy Thiater (by the way I herd he never play ballet “Spartacus” and sum people think he “kill” Russian trumpet school , don’t get me wrong he one of the kinds ). This school was influence by French-German. They are using Bb trumpet and any mouthpieces.
thanks, vlad. are there any russian trumpet manufacturers?...with websites?
Joined: 25 Sep 2004 Posts: 437 Location: Hong Kong
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 3:14 am Post subject:
I have not played any Russian instruments but given the very low quality products from mainland China, Eastern Europe, etc. I doubt if you would care about any Russian horns... _________________ Greetings from Hong Kong,
Ken
For Hazmat
The Bach 3C mouthpiece is small if your main instruments C trumpet. Ask your London friends if your play everything on Bb…. The ½ of this 3C was from old Bach era ~ = to modern Bach 1C. One of my friends had Bach 7C bigger then 3C.
For David Johnson
You are open all Russian trumpet players pain. In Soviet time it was four Russian musical manufactures. I would not want describe haw USSR economy was working. In two words trumpet was not a priority. Yes, we can make space ship but not a trumpet. Main problem: they could not make valve casing.
The list of manufacture starting from crap to worst:
1. Leningrad “Red October”
2. Moscow
3. Tula (weapons factory)
4. Engels (weapons factory)
I am not recalling any web-side. I don’t know if they still in business after USSR collapse. I saw “Red October” piano in Houston.
The best brass instrument in USSR was spatial order from Leningrad factory trombones, baritone (Euphonium), tenor and tuba. The piston trumpet and French horn has good sound. The valve action was if somebody was dropping them on hard floor few times. This plant was old Zimerman factory before revolution (make grate rotary trumpet until last old “master died” ~ 1950 - 1970).
I don’t know any pro player plays this instrument in my time (I finished conservatory at 1992). We dream to bay any USA or French instruments and play B&S and Amati.
Joined: 08 Aug 2004 Posts: 449 Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posted: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:38 am Post subject:
I see horns made in Estonia during the Soviet Union all the time in antique stores etc. Rotaries mainly. A friend has a horn as a wallpiece that I dont know even know the name of. Its kind of like an oval shape? My school has a grand piano from a manufacturer called Estonia. Stamped inside the body is 'Made in the USSR'... pretty sweet! _________________ Yamaha 6310Z - 14B4
Courtois flügelhorn - Denis Wick 4FL
...nor sure i understand, does that mean it has always bothered russian trumpeters that there were no top quality manufacturers in their country?
did the amatis work well? some folks here don't care for them. i never played one myself.
I know you wouldn’t understand. It is not only my English problem. This is Russian mentality. I try you explain Socialism way of living in the 70s 80s.
It never bather me “Russia don’t make the trumpets”. Everything what was made beyond Russian border was better, we know this. Just, how to get? Not to get or not to get. All the top orchestra has own set of Bb trumpets (Bach, Selmer, Bench or Yamaha). We have four ways to buy trumpet:
1. No musical store is selling western musical equipments and to get B&S or Amati you need to travel to Moscow at the end of years or quarters (if you lucky) or used reseller.
2. It was a procedure to sell 10 - 15 years equipment to the orchestra musicians. They will get another orchestra set and sell to “lucky”.
3. Traveling abroad the border “tourist” can bay (usually student model) The government aloud to exchange only $200.
4. Sum people has relative who try to help. They bay you instrument you give the money to relatives in rubles. “Western Union” deals.
You can guess: For sum of this Soviet low have prison term.
By the way sum models of Amati were better then Eastern Germany B&S.
Joined: 23 Mar 2003 Posts: 1969 Location: Austin, by way of Germany and Hawaii
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:15 am Post subject:
I heard the Leningrad some years ago live, and I wasn't ready for the brass sound at all. Because of the "brooding" quality of so much Russian music, I was expecting quite dark and thick sounds from the trumpets and it was not so, at all; bright and noisy. _________________ You can't blow it if you haven't lived it.
"Even if I could play like Wynton Marsalis, I wouldn't play like Wynton Marsalis."
Chet Baker
Schilke B7
Martin Committee (1956)
Connstellation 38B (1959)
Hans Hoyer G10 French Horn
Joined: 07 Feb 2002 Posts: 2199 Location: Toluca, Mexico
Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:54 am Post subject:
Just as today's Chicago Symphony doesn't sound the same as it did 50 years ago, the "Russian" school of trumpet playing has evolved and changed a lot in recent years. (The same could be said of all the great orchestras, for example the Berlin Phil, Vienna Phil, Concertgebouw, London Symphony, etc.) Most of the recordings mentioned give you an idea of how Russian trumpet players played a couple of generations ago.
Many Russian players now play C trumpet or other smaller horns.
One of my favorite players these days is Timur Martynov. Here is an excellent example of today's Russian school.
I have worked with three Russian principal trumpet players who were touring with ballet orchestras.
Incredible ability to tongue the popular Russian composers at gallop tempos. Bb Trumpets and fairly powerful. Great endurance and big dark sounds. There is nothing I can think of in the orchestral repertoire that would require tonguing this fast.
None of them could speak English. They were fun guys who partied hard.
I think I told this story before: Years ago the conductor for a Russian Ballet tour smiled at me and said something polite in broken English while I was standing next to the Russian first trumpet. The trumpet player went berserk and starting screaming " F- you" at the conductor and getting in his face. Apparently, he did know some English. Later I found out he thought the conductor was criticizing him in front of me. In the Soviet Union the conductor job was just a government job so swearing at him was not a major issue. I could not stop laughing at the F-you with a thick Russian accent.
Good Times _________________ Schilke B5
Cuesnon Flug (1967)
Caruso Student
Mouthpiece Stand
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, don’t get me wrong he one of the kinds 
). This school was influence by French-German. They are using Bb trumpet and any mouthpieces.
