Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:33 pm Post subject: Stomvi piccolo trumpet question
Hi guys!
Long time lurker (11 or 12 years, at least) who finally decided to make an account. It's possible I actually had an account before but I couldn't figure out the log in details if that is the case. So, now I have this one.
Anyway, I play on a Stomvi piccolo that is very similar to the Elite model but predates it. I'm not exactly sure the year (SN 901XXX), although I believe it is maybe early 90's. I got it used from a guy in metro Atlanta when I was 16 or 17 (so, 2002-2003). He basically didn't play picc anymore and was looking to sell it and I really enjoyed playing it. My trumpet teacher Fred Mills once told me in a lesson that it was a good playing little horn. But I realized I don't really know anything about it. I found another similar model online here: http://www.centexbrass.com/listings/StomviPiccolo.php. But that doesn't tell me too much about it.
Anybody know anything? Model number or anything? There's no bell stamp or anything. Just Stomvi in script and the SN. I also am curious if the horn would benefit from an aftermarket pipe (like from Osmun or Blackburn) and if anyone has any experience with that. I'm married to the cornet shank for sure and I play on a Mt. Vernon 10.5C mouthpiece I got from Rich Ita (I've always hated the 7E that it came with, but I really enjoy the horn with this piece).
Anyway, just figured that this is as good of a resource as I could possibly find to get some of that info.
While I can't answer your question directly, I can say that I own a Stomvi Elite piccolo tpt. (probably just slightly younger than yours), and that it has been terrific for almost 20 years now.
Joined: 10 Jul 2012 Posts: 601 Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2014 9:19 pm Post subject:
Hey Adam,
Welcome to TH! So I also can't answer your questions, but maybe you could try PMing rufflicks here on TH. He is or was a Stomvi player. Maybe he can help you. Maybe others will chime in.
Good luck!
Matthew _________________ Matthew Porter
"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, learning from failure"- Colin Powell
Welcome to TH! So I also can't answer your questions, but maybe you could try PMing rufflicks here on TH. He is or was a Stomvi player. Maybe he can help you. Maybe others will chime in.
Good luck!
Matthew
Thanks for the suggestion. I figured I'd throw the question out there and let it marinate for a couple of days as I'm mainly asking for curiosity's sake.
Plus I was playing Brandenburg earlier (inspired by a conversation with a friend who is currently studying with Hickman) and I realized that the high A is a wildly frustrating note. Not just the range aspect (which is daunting near the end of a practice session), but the pitch and slot are both iffy. Amusingly the same pitch is easier on C. It's always a bad note on
Bb. But as I tried it a few different ways (4th is flat, 3rd is flat, 2nd is close but slightly flat, 1-2 may not quite slot) I wondered what other people have done with a similar horn. Then I realized that I don't know anything about my horn. So I just played it 2nd valve and kept practicing.
I do wonder if the issue has more to do with playing on the Bb side of the horn. I've noticed that the intonation and slotting is much better on the A side. I confirmed that when playing the Hunsberger arrangement of Toccata and Fugue during my undergrad at UGA (which called for a lot of Bb picc playing) while I was also studying the Tartini.
Anyway, that's what led to me actually posting about it all.
I do love the horn, but I wondered if it could be even better (the eternal question).
Joined: 10 Jul 2012 Posts: 601 Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 12:10 pm Post subject:
adamc wrote:
musicman0097 wrote:
Hey Adam,
Welcome to TH! So I also can't answer your questions, but maybe you could try PMing rufflicks here on TH. He is or was a Stomvi player. Maybe he can help you. Maybe others will chime in.
Good luck!
Matthew
Thanks for the suggestion. I figured I'd throw the question out there and let it marinate for a couple of days as I'm mainly asking for curiosity's sake.
Plus I was playing Brandenburg earlier (inspired by a conversation with a friend who is currently studying with Hickman) and I realized that the high A is a wildly frustrating note. Not just the range aspect (which is daunting near the end of a practice session), but the pitch and slot are both iffy. Amusingly the same pitch is easier on C. It's always a bad note on
Bb. But as I tried it a few different ways (4th is flat, 3rd is flat, 2nd is close but slightly flat, 1-2 may not quite slot) I wondered what other people have done with a similar horn. Then I realized that I don't know anything about my horn. So I just played it 2nd valve and kept practicing.
I do wonder if the issue has more to do with playing on the Bb side of the horn. I've noticed that the intonation and slotting is much better on the A side. I confirmed that when playing the Hunsberger arrangement of Toccata and Fugue during my undergrad at UGA (which called for a lot of Bb picc playing) while I was also studying the Tartini.
Anyway, that's what led to me actually posting about it all.
I do love the horn, but I wondered if it could be even better (the eternal question).
Hey Adam, I would look into some aftermarket pipes as well. Maybe that will solve your issue of the A side being out of tune. Is it one pipe for Bb and A? As that might he adding to it. Maybe If there's just one pipe, the pipe would be pulled out too far to keep the intonation in line. It may be the opposite for others as the pipe would be pushed in farther so there's less gap. Hopefully this is making sense. I can ramble sometimes. _________________ Matthew Porter
"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, learning from failure"- Colin Powell
Welcome to TH! So I also can't answer your questions, but maybe you could try PMing rufflicks here on TH. He is or was a Stomvi player. Maybe he can help you. Maybe others will chime in.
Good luck!
Matthew
Thanks for the suggestion. I figured I'd throw the question out there and let it marinate for a couple of days as I'm mainly asking for curiosity's sake.
Plus I was playing Brandenburg earlier (inspired by a conversation with a friend who is currently studying with Hickman) and I realized that the high A is a wildly frustrating note. Not just the range aspect (which is daunting near the end of a practice session), but the pitch and slot are both iffy. Amusingly the same pitch is easier on C. It's always a bad note on
Bb. But as I tried it a few different ways (4th is flat, 3rd is flat, 2nd is close but slightly flat, 1-2 may not quite slot) I wondered what other people have done with a similar horn. Then I realized that I don't know anything about my horn. So I just played it 2nd valve and kept practicing.
I do wonder if the issue has more to do with playing on the Bb side of the horn. I've noticed that the intonation and slotting is much better on the A side. I confirmed that when playing the Hunsberger arrangement of Toccata and Fugue during my undergrad at UGA (which called for a lot of Bb picc playing) while I was also studying the Tartini.
Anyway, that's what led to me actually posting about it all.
I do love the horn, but I wondered if it could be even better (the eternal question).
Hey Adam, I would look into some aftermarket pipes as well. Maybe that will solve your issue of the A side being out of tune. Is it one pipe for Bb and A? As that might he adding to it. Maybe If there's just one pipe, the pipe would be pulled out too far to keep the intonation in line. It may be the opposite for others as the pipe would be pushed in farther so there's less gap. Hopefully this is making sense. I can ramble sometimes.
It's actually the Bb side that tends to be more out of tune (with the exception of the middle G being funk on the A side). It has two separate stock pipes, but that doesn't mean that mouthpiece gap couldn't be the issue still.
I tried it again today with fresh chops and the trick where you pull the 4th slide and use it. That was ok. Then I tried 1-2 again and, while it was a little fishy after a couple tries, it was much better. I nailed a few of them (apologies to the dog, even though I wasn't playing that loud). So maybe the answer for playing the A is "play it 1-2 and don't play it too many times" haha. I'm having a ball with the 3rd movement though. It's funny that I didn't realize how much I had improved since I graduated because I haven't even tried to play Brandenburg in quite some time.
I do think exploring some aftermarket pipes could be fun/interesting though. It's a good horn, but is has its quirks (as they all do).
This is a base model Elite piccolo from 1990. We have both trumpet and cornet shank pipes in Bb and A, available for this horn.
If you have any questions please contact us toll free; 888 702 7277
Horn mystery solved!
Thanks, Stomvi. Also, I was 100% serious about Fred Mills really liking my piccolo. So, thanks for building a horn that has served me well for over a decade and impressed one of the best to ever play the piccolo.
I was curious what people's experience has been with aftermarket pipes on this horn and what people liked best, but the stock pipes aren't bad. Just have a few pitchy moments here or there, especially on the Bb side.
I like the Bb side of mine (I too have a Stomvi Picc pre dating the "Elite" model) But I tend not to use the A side often, so I must be more used to it.
I highly recommend possible picc purchasers to look into a used Stomvi, got mine for a great price (and so did a friend of mine) and they have both been great quality horns in terms of intonation, sound, finish, build, etc. _________________ Powell Custom Bb
Powell C
Yamaha 8315G Flugel
Stomvi Piccolo
Joined: 25 May 2013 Posts: 2123 Location: Atlanta GA
Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2014 2:31 pm Post subject:
I wonder if the mouthpiece might be part of the problem? Picc players often use a mouthpiece with a larger backbore, and sometimes a larger bore, to help with the blow and intonation in the upper register, even if they choose a piece with a shallower cup.
I had been using a Schilke 14a4x (cornet shank) with my Stomvi picc. This piece combines a shallow cup with a large backbore and a standard bore. Recently I switched to a Stork Vacchiano 2P (cornet shank), which has both a larger bore and backbore than the 14a4x, along with a slightly deeper V-shaped cup.
You mentioned that some pitches in the upper register are flat. Is that generally the case, or just with these alternate fingerings? With my pieces, I have to watch that I don't go sharp in the upper register.
I'm not suggesting you try these specific pieces, but you might look for a piece with other characteristics you like (rim shape and diameter, cup shape, etc) along with a more open backbore. Might help solve the issues you've described.
Hope this helps. Good luck! _________________ Bb Yamaha Xeno 8335IIS
Cornet Getzen Custom 3850S
Flugelhorn Courtois 155R
Piccolo Stomvi
I wonder if the mouthpiece might be part of the problem? Picc players often use a mouthpiece with a larger backbore, and sometimes a larger bore, to help with the blow and intonation in the upper register, even if they choose a piece with a shallower cup.
I had been using a Schilke 14a4x (cornet shank) with my Stomvi picc. This piece combines a shallow cup with a large backbore and a standard bore. Recently I switched to a Stork Vacchiano 2P (cornet shank), which has both a larger bore and backbore than the 14a4x, along with a slightly deeper V-shaped cup.
You mentioned that some pitches in the upper register are flat. Is that generally the case, or just with these alternate fingerings? With my pieces, I have to watch that I don't go sharp in the upper register.
I'm not suggesting you try these specific pieces, but you might look for a piece with other characteristics you like (rim shape and diameter, cup shape, etc) along with a more open backbore. Might help solve the issues you've described.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
That's an interesting thought. It would be tricky to find anything similar, given the notorious inconsistencies of Mt. Vernon mouthpieces. The only note that is flat is the middle G on the A side and then basically every alternate for that high G concert. I'm afraid my post may have become somewhat stream of consciousness when I started ranting about Brandenburg. Maybe my brain was oxygen deprived.
I have tried a few other mouthpieces, but I sound the best in the MV 10.5C by a mile. And I really do like how it feels. And the tighter throat and backbore seem to work well with how I play the picc. It's very different from my GR 65Z* that I play on the Bb (I also sometimes use a 64.7MS for the slightly deeper cup and bigger backbore to get a more classical sound). But on picc, the 10.5C is the part I least want to change. And my pitch is typically very good. There are a few notes I just expect to be a little strange, and the Bb side won't feel quite right. And honestly, it's not that I'm very displeased with my current setup. Just wanted to ID the horn (thanks, Stomvi!) and ask about the potential benefits of exploring some leadpipes.
I do appreciated your input though. It's something I hadn't really thought about.
I have bought a Stomvi piccolo. Piccolo seems Old.
I ask information directly to Stomvi Spain and I retrieves some information :
- My piccolo is build in 1988
- It is one of the first piccolo made by Stomvi
- There is no name model at this time (no elite or master): only one model exists.
Two images :
I found one video of Maurice André that seems to play Stomvi in 1998 :
Mine was bought at Paris, so perhaps a pre-owned by Maurice
On my piccolo there is a M10, M for Maurice ? )
Olivier _________________ Bb: Taylor London
Bach 37ml 1965
C: SchilBach (aka Bach 229L with Schilke modification)
Bugle: Kanstul 1525
Piccolo : Stomvi (first model as Maurice)
Mouthpiece : Prana B2S3 or artisan 1C or 1-1/2B or ...
Joined: 28 Sep 2004 Posts: 8914 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject:
FWIW, my long bell picc (Kanstul 920) does everything better with a cornet shank and on the A side. I also favor a deeper cup but that's because to date I physically can't play anything that can be described as shallow. Bach D-cup or Yamaha B-cup at most. _________________ "I'm an engineer, which means I think I know a whole bunch of stuff I really don't."
Charles J Heiden/So Cal
Bach Strad 180ML43*/43 Bb/Yamaha 731 Flugel/Benge 1X C/Kanstul 920 Picc/Conn 80A Cornet
Bach 3C rim on 1.5C underpart
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Eureka, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:23 am Post subject:
I picked up my Stomvi pic in 1988 just like the one pictured above. It plays just as well as some (not all) of the Schilke pics I have tried over the years.
It has one pipe in Bb that I am able to pull to "A" but the sound is not exactly what I want. I now use a Bob Reeves "A" adapter and that has made a big difference in sound and intonation. _________________ Blackburn Bb and C
Bach/Melk Eb/D
Stomvi Piccolo
In 1988, Stomvi piccolo comes with only one pipe (21 (Bb pipe) or 21A (A pipe)) tell me Stomvi Spain.
And Yes, like you I can also use my 21 pipe as A pipe but I have order a 21A pipe to Stomvi.
There is a M10 engraved on your piccolo, too ?
The 4th valve can be converted as a MA model ?
What is the serial number (by mp it you preferred ) ? _________________ Bb: Taylor London
Bach 37ml 1965
C: SchilBach (aka Bach 229L with Schilke modification)
Bugle: Kanstul 1525
Piccolo : Stomvi (first model as Maurice)
Mouthpiece : Prana B2S3 or artisan 1C or 1-1/2B or ...
Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 19 Location: Eureka, CA
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:50 am Post subject:
I have a 29 pipe and the body is stamped with M15. SN 891###
I have never tried another pipe. I have thought about getting a Blackburn A pipe. The Reeves A adapter has worked well so far. _________________ Blackburn Bb and C
Bach/Melk Eb/D
Stomvi Piccolo
Joined: 16 Jul 2004 Posts: 1102 Location: Sacramento, Ca
Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:31 pm Post subject:
I play one of these old horns as well. Mine is also stamped M over the number 15 on the third valve casing, the SN is 891XXX and I have a cornet shank pipe marked 19.
It has a nice mellow sound, not as easily shrill like a lot of piccs can be. Some work was done to the horn before I got it, so there is some silver loss on the bell at the 4th valve brace - the bell looks like it's made of a very high percentage of copper. I imagine this contributes to the nice sound. Plays pretty well using a Bach 7E. Had its best sound on a Bach 7D - very mellow but ringing.
Intonation on the Bb side can be a bit wonky, with Gs being a bit flat if I don't pay attention. It is better on the A side, but still quite playable in Bb.
Intonation improves on a Schilke 11AX, but the sound can only be described as that of a hammer striking an anvil. Very hard and penetrating. I stopped using it.
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