Retrieve the Lower lip

ItaTrumpet · Regular Member Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 11

Hi all,

I'm new to PIVOT SYSTEM. I was reading the encyclopedia and I found the statement "always retrieve your lower lip during any mouthcorner inhalation." When I do so, the center of my mouth (upper and lower lip vibrating point) is no longer closed; in other words mi lips no longer "just touches", and some air passes through the center when inhaling; is it correct?

More: how do I NOT break the hermetic seal if I retrieve the lower lip? I'm quite confused, maybe I'm misunderstanding some term (perhaps I do not understand what the hermetic seal is supposed to be).

Stefano

oxleyk · Heavyweight Member Joined: 12 Apr 2006 Posts: 4180

This might be useful.

https://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Atrumpetherald.com+~retrieve+lower+lip&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Retrieve the Lower lip

ItaTrumpet · Regular Member Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 11

So if I understand correctly, the lower lip retrieving is only for the interphrase inhalations, and to bring the lip into its optimal position. Am I right?

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

The phrase "retrieve the lower lip" would apply to interphrase mouthcorner inhalations. If one plays with a "wet" setting this is a fairly easy thing to do. Because if it was a "standard" mouthcorner" inhalation, the lower lip would already be in position.

It also depends on how much the lower lip "blows out " during the playing. Everyone is different.

CLB

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:04 am Post subject:

Doug Elliott · Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 6:51 pm Post subject:

The subject of "retrieving the lower lip" can be as simple or as complicated as you want to make it.

Essentially it's simply making sure that your lips get back to their initial relationship after playing in the low range where they tend to protrude more, especially the bottom lip. It's not only when taking a breath, although the quotes from the encyclopedia make it sound like that. Anytime you're coming out of the low range, with or without a breath, you need to make sure your bottom lip comes back in to its normal position instead of getting stuck out in a position where you can't ascend.

If you only do it on an inhalation, you risk interpreting it as resetting the mouthpiece, which it's not. It should happen entirely inside the mouthpiece. I think the O.P. was letting the pressure off and resetting.

ItaTrumpet · Regular Member Joined: 08 Mar 2014 Posts: 11

Thanks a lot, now I have the picture.

Stefano

PivotBone · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 10:53 am Post subject:

Doug,
That's a really great way to think about that!

Rich Hanks

Doug Elliott · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 12:06 pm Post subject:

I had a long discussion with Doc about that because I didn't understand it either.

My own problem was not letting my lower lip out enough when going into the low range, so "retrieving" it didn't make any sense until I saw the whole picture.

Mr.Hollywood · Heavyweight Member Joined: 14 Dec 2002 Posts: 1730

Doug,

None of us (myself included) could have explained it better.

Funny......When I asked Doc about how to "retrieve the lower lip" his answer was "Just do it!!!".

You know how it used to be when you'd get in that studio with all the cool pictures hanging on the wall and the tons of old mouthpieces laying around everywhere there were a lot of things that you should have or wanted to ask Doc but the wonder of it all just carried you away to "Reinhardt Land"....

Then Doc would start with his stories......."Bunny Berigan was in here in 1940 and I told him......" . Trummy Young and Kai Winding both had me cut their rims down for them....."

Memories.

CLB

BeboppinFool · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:27 pm Post subject:

I appreciate your explanation of this, also, Doug. Thank you for emphasizing the importance of doing it both when coming out of the lower register and during mid-phrase inhalations.

I had tried to nail Doc down on that point long ago but had still been foggy about it, so again, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain it.
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Puttin’ On The Ritz

Doug Elliott · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 3:40 pm Post subject:

I wouldn't have expected it to be so important on trumpet. I always figured it was mostly a trombone thing.

BeboppinFool · Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:51 pm Post subject:

Well, I do still play both, in a manner of speaking, although a bass trumpet sounds so much better than a trombone.

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Puttin’ On The Ritz

razeontherock · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 10:48 am Post subject:

Paul T. · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2014 8:04 pm Post subject:

"Retrieving the lower lip" made immediate sense to me, and I find it's a useful sensation - as Doug says - to aim for even in the middle of a phrase (typically when coming out of the lower register).

What's the process and/or sensation of "retrieving the lower lip" like for an upstream player, though? Does it make sense in the same way?

JohnO · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: Retrieve the lower lip

Doug, I appreciate your comment with regards to coming out of the lower range. How about when coming out of a higher range, say starting above the staff and on up. Thank you.

Doug Elliott · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:17 am Post subject:

No, it's only in the low range that the bottom lip comes out in a way that needs to be "retrieved."

razeontherock · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:46 am Post subject:

Did Doc ever have any routines to help develop the sensation of needing to retrieve the lower lip? I've never caught mine getting blown out, but I still find the tell-tale ring from the mouthpiece across the red of my lower lip, and I don't set up that way. If I concentrate on holding it in proper position I get overly tight and my tone gets lousy. If I could tell when it slips out, that would be better. On a trumpet mouthpiece, it's not really supposed to happen in the first place, is it?

Paul T. · Posted: Thu Aug 28, 2014 11:15 am Post subject:

I think you're describing something very different. The "retrieving the lower lip" concept happens entirely inside the mouthpiece, and has nothing to do with where the mouthpiece rim is placed.

It sounds like you might be using an efficient mouthpiece placement, and then adjusting to a better position as you play. I'm not a Reinhardt expert at the level of the other folks here, but I'd imagine Doc would have recommended you spend some time working on your (free) buzzing and making sure you always place your mouthpiece on a wet embouchure which is set with "buzzing firmness". That should fix the issue in most cases, I would think.